greatest white runner? VIREN

Euro wrote:

You MUST be a Finn because ONLY Finns use SUOMI (the real name of Finland).

Of course if you look into a country's background you will know the country's language and what they call themselves.

No I am not Finnish. lol

However, please do tell us which country you come from so that we can compare eggs with chickens.

Have you looked further into the tests taken at the 2001 Ski Champs, and the medal winners.

And know, the Finnish Ski team were caught out by their own set-up.

I am not defending the Ski Team I am stating that out of any of the SKI countries they seem to be the only ones doing anything.

And no I am not Finnish, but I am sure you will tell me differently.

Kiitos Paljon poika

You complete idiot, did you not get it first time when i said Ian Steward never rated Pre,he raced him aprox. 10 times and never lost to him,Pre was shit end of story

Why do you even mention Jim Ryun in the same sentence as Coe

Firstly Coe was top dog in the world for Approx 6 yrs,Ryun only 2,Coe broke world recorlds 12 times,Ryun 4 times.Coe had 2 golds and 2 silvers at olimpic,Ryun had only one silver,you can't begin to compare

coe

ryun

viren

pre

walker

bannister

in no particular order

what about the greatest runner, any race?

or the greatest runner before steroids? since we have no idea who is or is not on steroids any more....what a shame.

geb, el g, ryun,

800M: Coe

1500M: Ovett, Coe

5000M: Dieter Baumann: 12:54 and Olympic Gold

10000M: Lasse Viren, Ron Clarke

Marathon: Steve Jones

I'm sticking to Northern Europeans and people of that extraction for my working definition, since that seems to be the general consensus.

Gary wrote:

Why do you even mention Jim Ryun in the same sentence as Coe

Firstly Coe was top dog in the world for Approx 6 yrs,Ryun only 2,Coe broke world recorlds 12 times,Ryun 4 times.Coe had 2 golds and 2 silvers at olimpic,Ryun had only one silver,you can't begin to compare

Ryun lowered the mile record by a larger margin than Coe. Without pacers. Coe never ran faster than 3:56 without a rabbit. Ever. Ryun wasn't even extended in his 3:51.1 of course. And he ran in front the entire way, no competition in that race. Coe ran on synthetic tracks, and was financially supported during his career, of course. Ryun actually had to work for a living. You can't compare the athletes of the 60's with anyone after the late 70's, early 80's when it comes to that. Under the table payments became huge (relatively speaking) by the late 70's as compared to the previous decade.

Further, comparing the two is like apples and oranges. Also noted is the fact that you counted relays and indoor records among Coe's records, while ignoring them for Ryun. If you take away the indoor and relay records, you get 6 records for Coe. If you add the relays and indoor records for Ryun, you get 10 WR's. Stick to legit, outdoor records.

Coe was the best of his time. Ryun was the best of his time. Potentially, well, Ryun probably had more potential, more talent, but that's just the way things were. You don't think Ron Clarke could have run much faster today?

zatopek - phenonemal performance in '52. but how many white guys since could have run a 10k in 29:something, a 5k in around 14 minutes, then maybe a sub-2:20 marathon in the span of a few days? (i'm guessing at the times, but correct me if i'm wrong.) quite a few.

Peter Strauss and Robbie Benson

Coe hands down. How long did his 800 record stand? Was that 13 years? The only others who could even contend would be Zatopek and Viren. Bob Kennedy? please

ok umm only 4 gold medals in 2 olympics come the hell on emil did 3 in only one olympic games not to mention going to 3 others...... what about nurmi 19 medals in all i don't think viren can hold a flame to that

Something that most have forgotten (or never knew because they got their info from looking it up on websites) is that Viren also ran an excellent 5th in the 10k in 1980 (27:50 I think) and then ran the marathon. I think the marathon went badly though.

He was beaten by an on-form Yifter and his teammate Kedir. Also, the Finn Kaarlo Maaninka took the silver in the 10 and the bronze in the 5k.

He also ran the marathon in 1976 and took 5th, 2:13-something.

For those who compare him to Earlier greats, it just doesn't hold water, doping or not, the fields Viren beat were MUCH more competitive than they were 20 years earlier.

It is so competitive NOW, 23-29 years later that none of the top-level runners double in the 5/10 or the 10/thon ... don't even think about Geb or Tergat trying a 5/10/thon ... you will never see that again ... not even from Radcliffe.

Bekele came very close ... the best of anyone in a long while, but that wasn't the Olympics.

asahel wrote:

Coe hands down. How long did his 800 record stand? Was that 13 years? The only others who could even contend would be Zatopek and Viren. Bob Kennedy? please

Coe's record lasted 16 years - if you count the two years his previous record lasted, he held the 800 WR for a total of 18 years, an eternity in track. If not for drugs, he'd still hold the 800 WR.

Viren was tough, and did KO the top Africans of the day when he had to - including Yifter the Shifter.

Kennedy? Nope. He's run some fast times, but you have to win.

Ron Clarke - well, 27:39 on dirt, no rabbits, says it all. The altitude in '68 killed his best chance for gold.

Ryun? Awesome potential. Probably the most naturally talented middle distance runner ever, just bad training.

Steve Cram? He ran his 2:12 1k in a windstorm, he would have had the record under normal conditions, no doubt about it. His 3:46 mile was an awesome run - he finished in 53 - coasting the last 25 - 35 meters waving his arms. FIrst guy under 3:30 in the 1500, in a race with Aouita, who was no slouch at any race over 600 meters.

Nurmi? Long ago. Times don't hold up. Now, if he'd had modern training and equipment, he'd have run much, much, much faster. But we'll never know.

Today? Well, Europeans are intimidated by the Africans the last decade, with the incredible (and drug aided) drops in the 5k and 10k. That officials let this go on of course, means the charade and joke that track has become will continue for quite some time.

Voting wrote:

Viren was tough, and did KO the top Africans of the day when he had to - including Yifter the Shifter.

That makes me think of 80, when Yifter won, finally able to get Viren after almost a decade. I've read that Yifter was actually younger than stated, same with Keino and Jipcho and runners in Kenya. The article said the Ethiopians and Kenyans used to claim they were older than they actually were in order to be able to join the military and get the food, housing, etc. that only the military or police would get. (I can't remember the birthdates, but it did say that Yifter was actually a little younger than Viren, actually. Who knows?) Far cry from today, when we have guys like Kipchoge claiming to be teens, when it's obvious he hasn't seen the teen years in half a decade.

shantideva wrote:

zatopek - phenonemal performance in '52. but how many white guys since could have run a 10k in 29:something, a 5k in around 14 minutes, then maybe a sub-2:20 marathon in the span of a few days? (i'm guessing at the times, but correct me if i'm wrong.) quite a few.

why is it in track we are such slaves to "well, someone could run faster now so those guys in the past couldn't be any good." this doesn't happen in other sports. babe ruth is considered the greatest ever but he would just be a rather small and fat slob today; guys like jim brown would be too small to be a good running back in the nfl and yet many consider him to be the best running back ever. bill russell and wilt chamberlain would be eaten alive by shaq. the 8 straight champ boston celtics would be raped by the Orlando Magic of today; are the Magic of 2003 better than the Celtics of the 50's? those old guys are judges by their accomplishments in their era based on the contraints they experienced, not on what they would be like in today's nfl, nba, or mlb. i'm faster than emil zatopek. should i consider myself to be a better runner than him? if i were racing in the 1950's, would i have beaten him?

800m-1000m-1500m:Coe 1:41,2:12,3:29

1500m-3000m-5000m:Baumann 3:33,7:30,12:54

5000m-10000m-Marathon:Pinto 13:02,27:12,2:06:36

Timo & Kobe,

Going back farther into the history lesson, check out Paavo Nurmi. Gold in the 15, 5, 3 and XC in one Olympics, and probably would've won the 10 also if his federation did not keep him from running it. The story goes that he was so pissed off that he ran a 10k TT on the practice track while the 10k was run, and ran 30 seconds faster than the winner... who knows if that's true, but he did win 9 Olympic gold medals, or 5 more than Viren (who was also incredible).

virin <><> blood <><> doper <><>

kilroy es wrote:

coe

ryun

viren

pre

walker

bannister

in no particular order

Pre doesn't belong on that list, for longer distances should have Jim Peters on there for the marathon, what he did to the WR over a couple of years is similar to what PR is in the process of doing to the women's record now. Tough to leave off Ovett, Nurmi, Zatopek, Kuts and Snell too!