gerry lindgren

Let's look at this:

350mpw

50mi/day

Let's be conservative and say he averaged 8min/mi. That's 400min or 6hr40min of running per day. And let's assume he had 3hrs of class/day five days a week. And let's say he got 8hrs of sleep a night. He can get up at six, run two hours, go to class a 9am, de done at 12pm, run from 1-3:30pm, and then run from 7-9pm. In between he can do his homework. It's an exhuasting and tedious schedule, but doable if you're:

a.) used to running 200mpw

b.) biomechanically efficient

c.) insane

Sorry to be rude TomM, but your ignorance astounds me. Jtupper posted right before you, and said that Gerry Lingren ran 350 miles. He has first hand knowledge of how Lingren trained, and tested him during his prime. You obviously have decided to not except his knowledge...and if you don?t believe what Jack Daniel has to say, no one on this board will have the proof you desire unless Gerry Lingren writes in himself.

I have met Lingren once and mentioned my training to him (told him I was building up to 120miles per week).....his comment to me was "that low, I had 120 miles by wednesday" (2 days into his week). In HS I only thought he made it up to 260mpw, but I am willing to believe jtupper on the 350.

lets not forget that he lowered the high school two mile from 926 to 840. On cinder tracks his 1344/840 is a little different than a 1344/836 on synthetic. His 1344 would probably be worth around 1330 now. So naysayers of Lindgren's work ethic or whether or not he ran 350 a week blah blah blah, stick that in your collective pipes and smoke it.

dsk--sorry to astound you with my ignorance. And I forgive you for astounding me with your gullibility.

Actually, he said 360 miles in one week. As far as the "first-hand knowledge" you credit jtupper with, wouldn't that entail being present for all those miles? As far as I know, there isn't a test to reveal how many miles per week someone is running, so jtupper is presumably using the same evidence as all the other believers--word of mouth. I would imagine that's where Jack Daniel's information comes from too, and any other source attributing 350 mpw to Lindgren.

That's great that you actually talked to Lindgren. He told you he had 120 miles 2 days into his week? So he ran 80+ on Sunday, unknown on Monday, then another 120 on Tues/Wed? Is there anything that you would not believe?

I'd have to say that most people defending Lindgren's claims are ignoring the basic problem of exhaustion. They make out like he's just going about his day, and whenever he has spare time, he goes for a run, no big deal. He's just free-spirited like that. Never mind the massive toll such mileage would take on a body (while also attending college/high school), the need to eat constantly and sleep when not eating. Come on! When you worked up to 120 mpw, didn't it at any point occur to you, "hmmm....to equal Lindgren, I'd have to triple this mileage....that might not be possible". I'm sure you'll say you weren't particularly tired and that you had an active social life and did well in class, but you can't convince me that 120mpw isn't pretty much all-consuming. If it wasn't, why didn't you just do more? The only way to triple it would be to make an all-out effort at a journey run, running slowly throughout the day with people always there to give you aid. It would not involve running interval workouts, 10-milers at sub-5 pace, going to class, etc.

I don't think anyone here is seriously considering matching Lingrens alleged mileage records.

I think there is just a sense of awe for this guy who is the personification of that urge in all serious distance runners to run and run for hours on end. We don't do it because we afraid of getting hurt, burning out, or we just don't have the time or the will. This guy was crazy enough to go out and do it. There's something to admired about that.

I can believe he ran 360 miles in one week, but not for much longer than that. Doesn't make any sense when you look at the time. Consider this:

168 hours in one week.

Say, roughly, 8 hours sleep in one night (probably needs more if running that much)

So we are down to 112 hours left in the week.

Lets assume 40 hours/wk for HS/College, gets us down to 72 hours left in the week.

Then assume he runs 360 miles @ 8 minute pace (on average, even if he is Lindgren, I can't imagine the average would be faster - not even he pounds for 80). That is 48 hours/week running, which brings us down to 24 hours total (for the week).

That means he has 3.5 hours extra/day to do his laundry, shower, hit the snooze button, some extra studying, EAT (must do lots of this), stretch (must do lots of this), etc.

Possible, but not all that likely. Consider how much time you spend doing these things, even if you are in college and have laundry facilities and a dining hall handy.

I wonder what kind of grades the guy got?

jtupper is Jack Daniels. But none the less I understand your skeptical and I am as well. If he did, well that is impressive mileage. If not well no big deal. I also have no reasson to believe he did not. I do know this some runners are strange, nice people but very strange, and if that was his outlet for dealing with his home life than it seems possible. Some people deal with that stress by drinking themselves to death. I guess if you are going be excessive about something might as well benefit from it.

Facts are hard to come by and if you come to this board often Tom you know it is often short on facts.

Wow can you imagine running 50 miles a day for what 6 to 9 weeks. Yikes Maybe one day I will try to run a couple of 200 mile weeks just to see what happens. Injury?

Just to add another great piece of Lindgren folklore, I've talked to several old-timers around Spokane, and during Lindgren's senior year he became injured mid-cross-country season, I think with a stress fracture. Of course this was back in the days when you didn't have to qualify to run the WA state meet, so the day of the meet, he comes off crutches to win the whole deal. Beautiful.

We Believe

to HRE and others regarding Gerry's store: the Stinky Foot.

I think the Stinky Foot opened in about 1978 or 1979. It was in a large strip mall near the Tacoma Mall. There was also a second Stinky Foot in the Crossroads Mall in Bellevue (near Seattle); I believe his brother ran that one, as Gerry was always at the Tacoma store. He lived in Tacoma and it turned out we were neighbors, which is how I met him.

In a lot of ways, the Stinky Foot was a typical little running store in an era when everyone who knew how to jog and owned a pair of waffles seemed to open a running store. But Gerry would encourage you to try out shoes running laps around the parking lot. And he did some unique things -- like he got a special deel on a zillion pairs of Tiger 4-spike racing spikes, but I think they were all size 11 and up, so he didn't have many takers. I think they ulitmately went for $5. But he never seemed to mind if you just sat around and shot the breeze.

Then in about 1980 was when Gerry disappeared. I went to the store one day and the other person who worked there said Gerry had just disappeared. About a month later the store was closed and I haven't seen him since. But it didn't surprise me that he showed up in Hawaii. And anyone who knows Gerry knows he couldn't really hide for long -- too many people know him, too many people like him, and he looks a bit unique.

He also ran 13:44 on cinders and 8:40 on indoor boards in high school, beat the Russians while in high school, and won the Olympic trials in high school -- only to sprain an ankle before the Games and watch the second guy on the team win a gold medal. Whether one believes 350/wk or not (and I believe it, probably for about a 6 week stretch), Gerry walked the walk, and I have yet to meet anyone with an unkind thing to say about him. Not many folks can top that. I wish him well. -- Spidey

Lindgren info from Running With the Champions by Marc Bloom--enjoy

As a high school senior in 1964, Lindgren ran three times a day. He ran 5 or 6 miles in the morning, another 8 to 14 miles with the track team in the afternoon, and after going to sleep, got up at 1:00 or 2:00 A.M. for 10 more miles in the middle of the night. With added mileage on weekends, Lindgren says that he collected over 200 miles a week.

On weekdays, Lindgren switched between distance and speed with the Rogers team. If he did 400s, he did 15 of them in 60 seconds with a 400 jog between. If he did 800s, he did 8 of them in 2:05 to 2:10 with a 400 jog. These were world-class workouts, but Lindgren was running world-class times.

At Washington State, Lindgren's schedule initally allowed for only two workouts a day. He did his morning 5 or 6 miles and another 10 with the team in the afternoon. His favorite run was a 10-mile course through wheat fields. Lindgren says that his best time was 46:05, faster than Ron Clarke's world record on the track.

During one period at college, in late summer of 1967, Lindgren decided to outdo himself. He said that a physiologist at the school warned him against running more than 90 miles a week or risk breaking down. "I wanted to prove him wrong," said Lindgren. He proceeded to run 50 miles a day, 350 a week, for 6 weeks. "I ran at least five workouts a day," said Lindgren. "I felt great." He had a vegetarian diet, eating several meals a day.

Almost every weekend as a high school senior, and about once a month throughout his career, Lindgren ran 88 miles round-trip on Sunday to the top of Mt. Spokane. He'd start out at 5:00 in the morning and try to get back home by 4:00 P.M. Once, he got back around 2:30 P.M., better than 7 minutes a mile all the way. "Those last 5 miles were hell," he says.

CHEBII

Gerry would absolutely enjoy reading all this. Just to put your minds at ease. I got my information from Gerry in a 7-page questionnaire he (and 25 other subjects of mine) filled out for me when I did a 25-year follow-up study on them. I can only go with what Gerry wrote down. He told me lots of other stories, but they are not in writing so maybe I exagerate them (or maybe I reduce their impact). The mileage stuff he wrote down. Was he being honest ? I must give him the benefit of doubt. I still have the pieces of paper that he filled out for me. I guess I should go look at them again. Just like I have Ryun's workouts one week as a 17 year old when he did 50X400 at 69 followed the next day by 18X800. I did not watch Gerry run all the miles he said he ran, nor did I watch Jim run those 50 400s. I guess I trust people I consider friends. I remember when I invited Gerry to come for 25-year followup testing (we had not been in touch for many of those years and I didn't even know if he would respond). I wrote him a letter (no one could come up with a phone number) and got a response within a week. He said," Yeah, I 'd love to get back together with all those guys, and enter me in the drawing." Typical Lindgren humor. I heard several good stories about races he had run - for example that only once did he not try to win a race he was in and he spent the entire last lap arguing with himself as to whether he should try to win or let the other guy (because the other guy was older and may not have as many races left). He didn't write that down for me, but I sure remember that and other good stories. We need a few more of these guys; not necessarily the mileage, but the character. You can't just copy what he did and expect to be like Lindgren. Someone said he must have been a little strange. Name me some great athletes who aren't. I always thought that was a prerequisite

Jack,

"If you want to win a race, you have to go a little berserk." --Bill Rogers

TomM he was saying that his week started on monday. So by wednesday he already had 120. He had a very tough childhood and spent a lot of his nights running to avoid his drunk father coming home and beating him (hed get up at 12-1am and leave the house for a run and then sleep outside and do another run when he woke up. His running was his escape. I do believe there are some people who can handle that type of mileage. I honestly don't think I can. Lindgren didn't see his limits as is evidenced by any quote you read from him (and if you ever get to talk to him). But there was no reason to pose a question like that if no one, even Gerry Lindgren himself could give you an answer you would believe.

He sounds like one in a million, and only one in a million

-one in a biliion maybe - would and could do that type of training. Wake up at 2 in the morning to run ten miles? That is great stuff.

I really enjoy reading your stories about him Jack. I only was able to talk with him for a little bit, and he is a very "unique individual" with some great views on the sport.

I think he doubts it is possible. I think most people would. It seems likely though based on what people who know him have said. I bet that if Tom had met and talked with him he might believe ittoo. So he doubts it. Big deal. It does not take away anything from the stories and I don't think he is being an asshole about it. I agree great post jtupper

He didn't average 350 it was usually around 200. For the period he was at 350 its possible it could be accidentally exaggerated. Maybe it was 5 weeks at 300.(he didn't exactly run with a gps on his waist)The point is just because you can dispute this fact doesn't take anything away from him.

Incredible runner and person no doubt.

Question: So did Lindgren get a new pair of shoes every week and a half?

probably not. it wasn't uncommon for guys to put 1000+miles on shoes.