LAGAT BUSTED!!!! - Kenya Daily Nation Article

Yes, it is telling that Lagat went from being in the same league as, but by no means head-and-shoulders above, the likes of Sullivan, Lassiter, etc., to mopping up the floor with those guys shortly after graduating from college. It goes to show that suspicion is in fact justified when someone untaps a HUGE reservoir of supposed latent talent, especially after college (sub 3:30 like they were going out of style). And yes, his African-ness undoubtedly made us a little more willing to believe that he was natural.

Sad sad sad to hear it. Am not sure track will ever fully recover. Local ABC affiliate ran infomercials during time worlds were broadcast. Track has been my passion for 30 years, but it's turned into such a freak show that I wonder if the sport is dying. Sure hope not, but it will not be able to withstand many more bombshells like this.

Phoenix wrote:

Oliveira coached Cruz to 1:41 before EPO.

Cruz has been tabbed a 'roider by a lot of mid-'80s Eugenians who would know.

Lars wrote:

Yes, it is telling that Lagat went from being in the same league as, but by no means head-and-shoulders above, the likes of Sullivan, Lassiter, etc., to mopping up the floor with those guys shortly after graduating from college. It goes to show that suspicion is in fact justified when someone untaps a HUGE reservoir of supposed latent talent, especially after college (sub 3:30 like they were going out of style). And yes, his African-ness undoubtedly made us a little more willing to believe that he was natural.

Yes, that last sentence sums it up. Gullible Americans and Europeans ate up all the "genetics" stuff, without actually looking at what the physiological tests showed: E. Africans have a higher percentage of talented individuals, but hardly overwhelming. Oh well. Paulie was right.

16x wrote:

I can't believe some of you are so stunned.

Exactly. This just demonstrates the degree of denial even the "they're all dirty!" crowd has apparently exhibited to date.

We've seen big name after big name flunk drug tests, and on those occasions either gloated (if the athlete was unpopular) or maybe shook our heads (if the opposite was true). But with Lagat, it's "THIS IS A LANDMARK EVENT!!!" and "HE'S SUCH A NICE GUY, TOO!!!" (as if that could or should make a damn bit of difference).

Guess what, hammerheads. It's a positive drug test, just like many that have preceded and like the zillions that will follow. If this is truly the inciting event that causes some of you to finally raise your weary heads from the sand and declare that "NOW, ALL KENYANS ARE SUSPECT!!!" then I have to wonder how many of you who have been trumpeting about the guilt of East Africans ever really believed it. Oh, the irony.

Kapten Kangaru wrote:

Guess what, hammerheads. It's a positive drug test, just like many that have preceded and like the zillions that will follow. If this is truly the inciting event that causes some of you to finally raise your weary heads from the sand and declare that "NOW, ALL KENYANS ARE SUSPECT!!!" then I have to wonder how many of you who have been trumpeting about the guilt of East Africans ever really believed it. Oh, the irony.

Can't say that I follow you, but do answer me this: How does a positive test (presumably -- remember no B sample yet) for a single solitary Kenyan male -- one who is based in the U.S., yet -- implicate all of east Africa? That's a bit absurd, don't you think?

This really saddens me. I grew up in Pullman and always looked up to the guy when I was running in HS. I was proud to tell people about him in the commercial. No doubt he's a great runner, but EPO is a no-no. I'm still in shock. I know even if he comes clean from now on, people will still suspect him of some misconduct- including myself.

Gita Klough wrote:

Can't say that I follow you, but do answer me this: How does a positive test (presumably -- remember no B sample yet) for a single solitary Kenyan male -- one who is based in the U.S., yet -- implicate all of east Africa? That's a bit absurd, don't you think?

He spends several weeks (months) a year training in Kenya, just like Chepchumba. We're used to people performing all manner of contortionist tricks to defend cheats around here.

You've got this story, and it now looks like Szabo's health is ruined, and maybe even her life soon ended, by what many us will assume are drug shenanigans. Plus the Kelli White and Jerome Young stories, which may be innocent enough - but try explaining that to a public that is barely paying attention anyway.

Kapten Kangaru wrote:

I can't believe some of you are so stunned.

Guess what, hammerheads. It's a positive drug test, just like many that have preceded and like the zillions that will follow. If this is truly the inciting event that causes some of you to finally raise your weary heads from the sand and declare that "NOW, ALL KENYANS ARE SUSPECT!!!" then I have to wonder how many of you who have been trumpeting about the guilt of East Africans ever really believed it. Oh, the irony.

Yes, some people are stunned when they shouldn't be surprised at all.

However, it's a big deal because the doctors for the big boys have fouled up twice in a couple of months. Chepchumba, now Lagat. Maybe they didn't think Lagat would get tested two weeks earlier, and were giving him a booster shot, eh? One of their big guns has apparently gone down.

It's hilarity all the way around, is what it is.

I guess now, we all know how Lagat went from a guy who was beaten many times by Seneca Lassiter in college, suddenly became top 3 in the world within months of graduation.

Fact pointer outer wrote:

You've got this story, and it now looks like Szabo's health is ruined, and maybe even her life soon ended, by what many us will assume are drug shenanigans. Plus the Kelli White and Jerome Young stories, which may be innocent enough - but try explaining that to a public that is barely paying attention anyway.

Hey, the IAAF asks you put down EVERYTHING you are taking. Kelli White knew she was omitting her "prescription" when she filled out the forms. Young? Just another sprinter loading up on cold medicine and everything in else before a race. Man, a lot of sprinters get colds at major championships.

how long EPO has been around....?

Since the 80's, basically. It hit running in about 86, same year Rosa started with the Kenyans. Coincidence of course.

Well we'd all been saying it was only a matter of time before someone big gots busted, and its happens a bit in recent memory, Baumann, Boulami, Mourhit, Saidi- Sief, Leghazoui (spelling), Lagat, Chepchumba, White, Young, the testers have caught a bunch, and they found some stuff in Szabo's car. Everyone complains about the war against drugs, but we are doing much better as of now than before.

I'm not surprised there are dopers everywhere, in Kenya, in the US, all across the board, but just as such there are clean athletes in all of those places I'm certain.

But it ludicrous to assume that all the people who are connected or from the same country as one of the dopers is quilty. Thats just plain wrong. There are so many varieties of Kenyan runners, junior phenoms, guys who train in Japan like Biwott and Wainana, guys who run in the US, Lagat, Ngeny did before, you can't say that because one did it they all do. There are certainly more Kenyans who do dope, there are also many who don't.

Now we all know Lagat got busted, so did Baumann, these were people who said to very nice and quite popular. Perhaps drugs aren't the sign of people being evil assholes, but just a sad sign of what you have to do to be at the top, it might almost be to the point for them where it isn't cheating it seems, because so many do it.

Lastly he did a good deal of training in the US, who's to say where he got the drugs from, maybe it was here. There is no doubt their agents or coaches get them the drugs, the can't do it themselves. Lagat was brought through the US running system in college and after, it doesn't say good things about us either, especially with the recent busts of our sprinters and Slaney a few years ago.

Gita Klough wrote:

Can't say that I follow you, but do answer me this: How does a positive test (presumably -- remember no B sample yet) for a single solitary Kenyan male -- one who is based in the U.S., yet -- implicate all of east Africa? That's a bit absurd, don't you think?

My point was not that Lagat's dirty urine (and let's lay aside the bullshit about the B sample; Lagat and his entire squad of handlers reacted with utter shame) implicates all East Africans, but that many on this board - which is known for rowdily implicating all of East Africa - are now reacting with surprise over the busting of one of them. In other words, the hype they created turned out to be the real deal, at least on a micro scale (and let's not pretend Lagat is the only Kenyan juicing; we were all born with brains and it's only fair to use them occasionally).

Now that you understand, does what I wrote seem less absurd?

Leave me alone!

I don't think too many of the "I told you so crowd" are surprised at all. They might be surprised the Kenyans screwed up so close to a championship, but anyone who has been to E. or Southern Africa and has been exposed to African "morals" isn't surprised in the least. Uh uh.

Maybe the best clean miler in the world, is a healthy Kevin Sullivan.