Good High School GIRLS...whats you're summer mileage?

This is one of the best threads I’ve read on here in awhile. Thank you for all the great insight.

What does your average week look like during XC?

I’m just starting to coach at the high school level. I’m coaching in upstate NY were most weeks we have two meets (duel meet and an invitational, some weeks two duel meets and an invitational).

Do you count the meets as an interval workouts and then throw in a tempo run. Or are two races enough and just run easy the other days?

What I’d like to do is cut out a bunch of the invitationals, but I want to make small changes. The head coach who is leaving loved going to invitationals all the time. I follow more of a Daniels program if that's helpful to anyone answering.

Also, what day do you do your long run? I’d love to do it on Sunday, but not sure about having practice on Sunday, would like to give the kids at leas one day of the weekend to spend with family.

Thanks

Coleman,

In Colorado, they do not run dual meets. It is a weekly invitational, typically on Friday. The runners I work with do a 60 to 80 minute run on one day and then do a rotation of 90-105-120 minutes the other day. I do not tell them which day they have to run which distance, that gives them flexibility to run it when it fits their schedule. They are on their own, but typically, the team leaders decide the location and time, the others then show up at the designated locale if it fits their schedule, otherwise they do it on their own.

Glenn

We do long runs on Sundays on weeks we race on Saturdays (we have at least 3 Saturdays off during the season and do long runs on Saturday in those weeks.) My college coach introduced me to this and it is great to get the team together the day after a race. Having the long run the day after the race also helps to ensure that we don't run the long run too fast. No one wants to "race" the long run the day after a meet.

In exchange for a Sunday run I give my kids a day off during the week which they really appreciate.

A typical week in early October looks like this:

Monday - workout of 1.5 mile w/u, 5x800 on grass with bumps, 1 mile cooldown

Tuesday - off

Wed - low-key meet. 2.5 miles warmup, race 5k, 2.5 miles cooldown. We give different kids strategies like go easy for 1.5, then pickup or vice versa, or sprint the hills, etc.

Thurs - 35 minute run plus 4x200 at strides pace

Fri - 25 minute run

Sat - invitational. 2.5 miles w/u, race 5k, 1.5 miles cooldwon

Sun - 60 min hilly long run on trails

Girls Coach,

Your weekly outline looks very similar to what I want to implement (I won’t be the head coach till next fall 08).

It seems like Sat. through Mon. may be a tough stretch; three hard days, race, long run, and workout. Have you ever thought about a Tuesday workout the day before a low key race? Maybe make Monday the day off.

Do your athletes ever have a hard time getting to Sunday practice? I’m in a very rural district, I can foresee getting rides, church, and family obligations conflicting. I don't want to start something I can't keep up with. I guess latter in the season the long runs get cut back anyway.

Was it hard getting them to warm-up 2.5 miles? I think for the begging that’s going to be like pulling teeth. Currently they do a whole bunch of dynamic warm-ups and jog maybe a mile. I like the dynamic stuff (lunges, leg lifts, etc.) but wish they did just more easy jogging. I have a feeling they’re going to fight me big time on a long warm-up. I’m going to try to push some of this in this year as an assistant.

The 2.5 mile warmup is usually within a course tour. We typically walk the first mile of a course, then start running and then stretch and then jog the last 1/2 mile again just to refresh. I think part of the trick is not telling them it is 2.5 miles. We've actually had days where we ran the full 3.1 as warmup, but that is only before the chillest of races.

We may have 2-3 beginners only do a mile w/u for the first few meets but by mid-season we have full participation.

In terms of Tuesday workouts -- I've switched out Thursday and Tuesday before but only give a Monday off the wknd before our very last meet. That week looks more like:

League meet on Sat

Sun long run (only about 40 at this point in the season)

Mon off

Tues - 1.5 mile warmup, short intervals and strides, 1.5 mile cooldown

Wed - 30 min easy

Thurs - 25 min easy plus 3-4x stride 200s.

Fri - 25 min easy

Sat - Championships

Regarding Sundays -- We get about 50% turnout of our entire team, but usually about 8 out of our top 10. We switch between mornings and evenings to accomodate various schedules. The girls understand they are supposed to do the run on their own if they can't make the team run and they (usually) do.

I see Glenn is trying to "fight" a battle that many of us who are Lydiard Coaches see no problem with.

I have one young woman on my squad here in NZ who handles 90 to 110 min runs easily (usually with me .. I am 58 years old).

In case someone says that we jogged old mans pace then let

me say when we are doing those runs we have usually have atleast 2 young men with us .. 16 years old and who have run 1:56 for 800m.

Depending on time of year she will do 3 per week. As Glenn said it is not the distance but the intensity of the runs that causes problems.

The best High School Girl athlete I had trained similarly.

Lowest placing in an NZ Sec Schools Cross Country was 6th.

Ultimately she went on to Higher honours and ran World Cross Country Champs and not too many years ago picked up a Bronze medal at the World Mountain Running Champs.

How old was she when she "chucked" the Sport. Well she is still going at 40 !!!!!

Keep it simple people.

It is not really that hard to get a runner up to 2 hours by 11th grade, and he or she will not burn out. Any 9th grader can run 70 min by the end of 1 year of running, and then do 70 min 3 times in 1 week by the end of 10th grade, with a longer run of 90 min. By 11th grade, a long run of 2 hours can be accomplished, with a total of 3 long runs per week in the 70-80 min range. Where does a runner go from here? More miles. An 11th grader can do 70 miles per week, and work his or her way to 100 in college, with hillier courses, more long runs, etc. If anything, working toward accomplishing such goals as running for 2 hours straight, then running 2 hours on a hilly course, then running a 100 mile week, is what will ultimately drive a runner toward long term excellence, and will help them enjoy the sport along the way. Being too scientific and worrying about a runner over doing it, and only letting them move forward at a rate of so many minutes per run per year kind of takes the fun and sense of adventure out of it.

I'm going to a mid-level DI school next year on a cross scholarship. I'm someone who's never run all 3 seasons before in HS because I played basketball my entire life and always believed I'd end up on a basketball scholarship to school. I ran xc starting in 10th grade, and then ran xc and outdoor in 11th and 12th. I got progressivley better at running and the more I fell in love with it and became more serious and competitive the less I wanted to play basketball at a higher level.

Right now, my summer training is working me up to 35-40 mpw with tempo runs and strides thrown in. I trust my coach, who has run professionally, and have talked to him about maybe increasing the mileage because to me that seems like it's not enough of a base for the collegiate level.

What's your take on the amount of mpw?

a) increase the length of your longest run.

b) increase the amount of your weekly mileage for 1 week, then back off.

run_xc,

to determine what you should be doing this summer, you need to look at what you have done in the past. Did you run the summers before you ran cross country in HS? What mileage levels were you doing during cross country and track? Have you been running since track stopped?

I recommend the runners I work with take 3 weeks off after a season ends. Then we start back with base distance work, typically about as much as they were doing during the taper/sharpending phase of the season. We build from there, again doing comfortable distance runs. With 3 weeks before you will start training with your team, I add in a 20 minute tempo run one day per week and increase the intensity 2 other days. My view is to first develop endurance (ability to run continuously) then add stamina (ability to run strong over distances) then you will likley start anaerobic work when the season starts. You should be moderately ready to race 3 to 4 weeks after that.

Let me know if you need more clarity or specifics.

Good running,

Glenn

Coach McCarthy, thank you so much.

I always ran, but it was always second to basketball until the end of the summer going into my senior year of HS. During my spring season, I was probably doing about the same MPW (30-35) with interval and threshold workouts spaced every other day by long recovery runs. I trained with the boys team all of spring because the girls team wasn't structured or up to par with where I needed to be.

I took 2 weeks off from the end of my spring season ended and then started the summer training my coach had given me. Like I said before, I completely trust my coach, I guess I just feel like I'm not going to be prepared or be up to par with my competitors unless I run more than what I am now, over the summer. My coach's theory is that it will be a long year with running all 3 seasons for me and he doesn't want me to burn out by increasing the volume too fast, too soon, which I understand... but reading these threads just make me want to up the mileage.

The only "speedwork" I've done has been tempo-runs thrown into the mix about once a week starting last week, and that seems right to me since I'm only supposed to be building a base. However, do you think, with what I have told you, that I should be running an increased MPW?

listen to your coach. It wouldn't matter if Vigil, Wetmore, McDonnell, or any other incredible coach got on here and told you to run more. They are not your coach. Your coach has explained his reasoning for the mileage he has prescribed for you. If you don't agree with it, leave the team. Nobody on this board is in a position to accurately give you training advice. There are many roads to success and each athlete is a different individual. Its when you start mixing and matching programs and lose faith in what you are doing that your performances will suffer.

I mostly agree with the advice of the another girls coach. It's always a little bit of a challenge to adjust to a new training program whether you're incorporating girls who've never run a step and expect to be racing 5K in 3months or whether you're a college coach trying to get a lower mileage high school kid into your groove. It takes some careful planning and while I ultimately agree that if you're going to compete D1 with a focus on XC and 3K-5K in track then you probably do eventually need to increase your mileage. But I think this is something you should work out with your coach. Perhaps their plan is to not change anything this summer and continue building mileage through XC and indoor then let you really race in the spring. Not a bad plan for a low mileage frosh who is unlikely to make your top seven. I actually will do that with our frosh who get up to 20-25mpw by the end of summer and are interested and want to run more. I let them keep increasing their mileage through the fall which works because I do very little anaerobic stuff with anyone until they get up to 40mpw so adding volume is their only stress. I can think of a particular young lady who then broke into our top 5 the next year. Your coach may have another plan but together you need to work through it together and both agree with the plan. If you don't agree keep talking and if you can't come to an agreement then you probably will do better with another coach.

run_xc,

I would recommend that you increase the length of your longest run, add 15 minutes to it, the first week, then 15 minutes again the second. At that point if you are feeling like you are not more fatigued by the extra distance add 15 minutes again. Let's say your long run is 75 minutes right now, next week it would be 90, then 105 and finally 120. If you are feeing fatigued drop back to 90, then do 105 and 120. After that go to a rotation of 90, 105 and 120 until you report to training with the team. That will take you several rotation to get used to the longer runs. I would continue that endlessly. If this goes well, you can up your mileage on a second day, preferably with 3 days of your current level of running between them. Make sense? If not, write more.

good running,

Glenn

i wouldn't have called myself great but decent enough to make states in hs and got to continue on abit in college...

pbs: 2:35, 5:10, 11:05

summer training: usually doubles, 15min am jog, followed with easy core, and in the pm a 5 miler.... also throw in cycling (usually 1-2 hours a day), and once a week a long run (13km), a rest day, and some easy days. made about 40-60km a week @5min/km pace (slow). no speed stuff.

I had no idea what I was doing then. but I did improve.

In the winter I didn't really do much, play volleyball, maybe jog in the snow, maybe spin on rollers, 30km/ week, and yeah, without speed and conditioning I sucked at track.

when I got to uni, the mileage jumped, as well as the intensity, I was doing tons of speed work, which made me faster but I got injured right away :(

Thanks so much to everyone for their advice.

I appreciate all of your opinions and will definitely take all of them into consideration as I continue training this summer.

Coach McCarthy, thank you for going into such great detail for me.

run_xc,

you are welcome. Remember, it is your running career. Even though coaches want you to run well for the 4 to 5 years you attend the school, you are only limited by your own desires and ability to do the work. As Arthur Lydiard said, "there are champions in every neighborhood, they just need to be encouraged to do the work". Arthur took 3 "kids" from his neighborhood in Auckland and they won Olympic medals in 1960. What do you want to do? Are you one of those "Champions" in every neighbprhood that just needs the right combination of coach and determination? Remember Deena Kastor never won an NCAA title. but look at where she is now.

good running,

Glenn

Just wanted to bump this thread back up, as it was one of the best I've seen on the boards in a while.

I'd love to hear from more coaches about what they do.

I have a real hard time building up my beginning girls (13-14 yrs old)to much more than a 45 minute run. Granted, they're not very talented, and we are running on city streets/sidewalks much of the time. How can you motivate them to do 2 hour runs???

dt

1) I'm a 400/800m girl mainly, but I've run alot of distances over the years...25.4 (200), 56.9 (400m), 2:13 (800m), 5:17 (mile), 11:04 (3k), 19:50 (5k), 24:30 (6K)

2) In previous summers I haven't logged much mileage as I was focusing on shorter distances, so maybe 30 mpw tops. Over the years my mileage has grown, peaking around 50mpw in-season during cross last year, so my summer goal is 65 mpw, to prep for 6k's this fall. This will include some tempo runs and intervals, core/abs/wieghts, strides and a long run of 20%..to reach my goal mileage yet maintain quality I will break two maybe three days into doubles of something like 20 min morning run and a 6ish-mile afternoon run.

3) My XC goal is to break 24 minutes in the 6k, which would also break my 5k record en route..the 24:30 came on 45-50 mpw, so I feel it is realistic. After XC my mileage will decrease during track, with my goals being sub 2:10 in the 800, which is my main event. My current PR stands from 4 years ago, so it is time for it to go. Any other improvements in other events I welcome, but am not too focused on. The past few seasons have been rough with various problems, so I will be grateful to reap any consisent improvement this year.