Latebloomer Vs. Earlyriser said:
Chris Lewis ran sub 4 as a freshman at Wisconsin and competed at the indoor NCAA's. [/quote]
i say no, he did not run sub 4. please post where and when he did it. in my opinion wisconsin and martin smith were the worst choice this kid could have made. another talent wasted.
Searching 4 Answers wrote:
For starters, here's Saratoga's 2002 State Championship Team:
Nicole Blood, Melissa Trauscht, Ali Rowe, Meghan O'Conor,
Jamie Sweeney, Kirsten Hornbach, Amanda Meyer, Ruby Solomon.
Where are they now?
Also Danielle Coon (Footlocker Finalist), Margie Boltzer (NYS championship team)Jamie Sweeney (former national steeplechase record holder) Brittany Welsch (4X800 NYS championship team)Catherine Rossi (NYS 8th grader of the year) Carlye Wilusz (frosh suburban council champ, Alex Brentis, Kaitlin Raddigan, Meghan Oconor, Jessica Bellon. these all promising young athletes that were introduced to running & joined the toga program at a young age. some made it to college, some quit before even grad high school. what happened? where are they now?
Keith Dieterle
lmb wrote:
Ed Mather was the coach at Bernard's
uh, yea, but so was Wetmore. Wetmore ran the distance group for much of the later great Bernards years... not to take away from Mather. He was a great coach and got great results and taught Wetmore a lot of what he knows.
lmb wrote:
Ed Mather was the coach at Bernard's
uh, yea, but so was Wetmore. Wetmore ran the distance group for much of the later great Bernards years... not to take away from Mather. He was a great coach and got great results and taught Wetmore a lot of what he knows.
Where's Toga True Blue?, he should be on this thread defending his team. GO BIG BLUE!
I'm not sure a coach can burn out a runner, unless the athlete is a total lemming and won't ease up on the off-season. Or perhaps American kids are just wimps. Even if you did high mileage, can you really physically run yourself into the ground where you can't be competitive in college? I'm not sure there's any scientific evidence to prove that.
Prefontaine and Lindgren did ungodly mileage in high school, they turned out OK. I heard Craig Virgin, Salazar, Chapa, and others really loaded up the miles, too. They had good post-prep careers.
As for Tyson, having grown up within a couple hours of Spokane, what I've heard is they did intense miles, but few were running more than 60 per week. That hardly sounds like burn-out stuff (maybe a Mead guy can correct me on this). Matt Davis would've had a sensational career at UO had he not been constantly injured ... those injuries occurred at UO not Mead.
If anything, American high school kids don't do enough miles and are too soft. I don't believe in high school burnout syndrome. Some guys don't do well in college and it has little to do with what they did in high school. If running lots of miles in high school meant doom at the next level, hundreds of college All-Americans never would've received that honor. Most guys finishing in the top places in the NCAA logged tons of miles as preps.
Star Search wrote:
Searching 4 Answers wrote:For starters, here's Saratoga's 2002 State Championship Team:
Nicole Blood, Melissa Trauscht, Ali Rowe, Meghan O'Conor,
Jamie Sweeney, Kirsten Hornbach, Amanda Meyer, Ruby Solomon.
Where are they now?
Also Danielle Coon (Footlocker Finalist), Margie Boltzer (NYS championship team)Jamie Sweeney (former national steeplechase record holder) Brittany Welsch (4X800 NYS championship team)Catherine Rossi (NYS 8th grader of the year) Carlye Wilusz (frosh suburban council champ, Alex Brentis, Kaitlin Raddigan, Meghan Oconor, Jessica Bellon. these all promising young athletes that were introduced to running & joined the toga program at a young age. some made it to college, some quit before even grad high school. what happened? where are they now?
What colleges to they run for?
[quote]Northwest Run wrote:
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Prefontaine and Lindgren did ungodly mileage in high school, they turned out OK. I heard Craig Virgin, Salazar, Chapa, and others really loaded up the miles, too. They had good post-prep careers.
Lindgren did high mileage; but Prefontain did not; in high school or even in college. (high meaning 100-140 per week).
100 mpw was barely considered 'high mileage' in the 70's, but more the norm or median for most of the top runners. High mileage was what Shorter, Rodgers, etc. were throwing down....130-160mpw.
Okay, a little less rant this time, but don't you see? The only reason we even *ask* about these kids is because the great hs coaches brought them to a level of State/national prominence!
I can't find the stat, but I've read that fewer than 10% (actually, I'm pretty sure it's fewer than 5%) of all hs athletes compete at any college level for even a single season. Of course, a majority simply don't have the talent and/or don't go to college at all. But for every hs kid that a good coach brings to prominence, there have to be 10--I'd say more like 20-50--with similar talent who attend the crappy-program schools and don't get coached anywhere near their potential. In fact, most of them don't get coached at all, because the coaches don't get them on the team.
The percentage of super high school kids who later move on to world-class competition is going to be minuscule in any case: world class is incredibly rare. For sure, the ones who were never motivated to be on their hs team aren't going to do it. So how should we judge the coaches of the super kids? By how many (percentage, if not absolute) kids they produced who were super *in high school*. Those are the coaches who at least gave their athletes the chance for later international greatness--a level that perhaps one in a thousand will reach, in any case.
One example, then no more screeds (on this topic, anyway). A guy who runs 9:00 for 3200 in high school is terrific, right? Yet if, years later, he is somehow fortunate enough to carry that pace for 10,000m--more than triple the distance, a *fantastic* improvement on his prep mark--he's a low-28 10km runner: (American) national class, for sure, but more than a lap behind the fastest men in the world, and without a prayer of medaling in a world championship. So I guess the high school coach who brought him to 9:00 burned him out, right? Right...
The kids you're asking about (re: "where'd they go?") are, with *very* rare exceptions, those whose high school coaches did their job correctly.
Which is why you're asking about them at all.
there are lots of high schools that have coaches that burn out great talent that go under the radar.
transplant wrote:
there are lots of high schools that have coaches that burn out great talent that go under the radar.
Yeah, great point. The coaches who *really* "burn out" kids are probably the ignorant or uncaring ones who get them hurt or discouraged before they ever become good enough for anyone to hear about.
Story in the Corvallis, Oregon, paper a few years ago on Pre's High School buddy, a guy named Robert Huggins. I have the clipping at home if you want me to send it to you. Huggins and Pre one day ran from Coos Bay to Roseburg: that's 65 miles.
One day after a prep cross country meet in Reedsport, they ran back to Coos Bay: I believe that's 35 miles.
I call B.S. that he didn't do high mileage.
Yes, I do know Pre, I saw him run when I was a kid and studied his career closely.
Salazar was mentored by Bill Squires (gbtc) in hs, he did not do high mileage. Was kept at 70 mpw during his senior year. Squires believed the best would come after hs when Alberto matured.
What about Nicole Blood's mom? Oh wait, that is the category of parents who thought they were coaches.
Nicole Blood is not done yet. She's back to her 9th grade times but she ran a really decent 3k indoors...9:20 I think. The fact that oregon has her running times she has not run in awhile is a good sign. I believe she will do better when she adjusts.
In Virginia, Ron Helmer @ Woodbridge had those kids doing a ton of mileage in the 80's. They were perennial State contenders but I can't think of one guy who had much success beyond high school.
Nicole is getting back to where she used to be. She ran 4:25 at the Stanford Invite and recently ran a 4:29, 16:39 double with about and hour and a half rest at the Pepsi Invite. She's been improving all year and it looks as though she can keep dropping her times.
True "Toga Blue wrote:
What about Nicole Blood's mom? Oh wait, that is the category of parents who thought they were coaches.
Dude, we all know the Kranicks dont allow Parent involvement of any kind. You are still so disgruntle, get over it you crazy message board guru.