I comprehend everything you say. You're not using abstract ideas here, just dumb ones. And once again, your use of capitalization and exclamation points make your posts look ridiculous.
I comprehend everything you say. You're not using abstract ideas here, just dumb ones. And once again, your use of capitalization and exclamation points make your posts look ridiculous.
vvvvvv wrote:
How did he "choose" to under price the product?
If some "random profiteer" is able to sell the tickets/race entry (whatever the goods are) for higher prices that means 2 things:
1) The original seller has sold out of them.
This has to be true since if the original seller still had them at the lower price then no one would buy them at the higher price.
and
2) The original seller under priced his goods. The original seller could have charged more money for them. The "profiteer" is simply selling the goods for their true value, something the original seller did not do.
The original seller "chose" to under price the product b/c he set the price voluntarily.
What all this probably means is that the cost to enter NY, Chicago and other big marathons THAT SELL OUT are probably underpriced.
Steve Hoag wrote:
Using another's race number is at the least unethical and unlawful; at the worst, it is inherently DISHONEST!! I think that most violators of this policy are genuinely not aware of how bad it really is.
I don't think this comes down to anything more than runners often feel screwed by races that charge high fees then have poor customer service by refusing to defer entries till next year or allow transfers.
This may have a marginal impact on results, but most people simply do not care. Is this wrong? I don't know, but I do know I do not feel anywhere near as strong about it as you.
I agree that it is wrong and should not be done if the purpose is to qualify for Boston and one certainly should fess up if it screws up awards as far as age groups etc.
That said, I understand one can choose not to sign up for races that do not allow transfers and the rules do not allow it, I simply don't care, so long as it does not effect awards, qulaifying for Boston or prize dollars.
When you think about it, policies that stop you from selling the thing you bought are wrong and impinge on the free market. sure they are "rules" but they are rules in the sense that there were rules that make the blacks sit in the back of the bus. These are issues of freedom, of being "free to choose."
This is truly about a person's individual rights and not the rights of some race that imposes its will on the little guy after charging him $100.
People that sell the bibs are acting in civil disobedience and sending a message to the power that things must change, that transfers must be allowed. Whenever you sell a bib in defiance of the "rules" of authoritarian despots who rule in the petty world of race directing at the expense of runners you "speak truth to power" and act as an agent of change.
The time has come for runners to approach major races that refuse to be accountable to the masses and say to them "we resist you to the face" and will no longer tolerate being treated like cattle.
I think the best approach is for all people to sign up with false ages, names, and genders. Screw the results till the races accept the will of the people.
Steve Hoag wrote:
Using another's race number is at the least unethical and unlawful; at the worst, it is inherently DISHONEST!!
So what your saying here is that anyone running under a charity is unethical. They did not "qualify" for the Boston Marathon, yet they are gained entry through the BAA. The BAA only "asks" that they can finish the course in under 6 hours. That's it.......
So now, charitable organizations are unethical, unlawful, and inherently dishonest because they give an opportunity to a gallowalking penguin to walk the course..... Interesting concept if you ask me.
Either learn how to read or quit distorting the facts and go back to dystat.
uuuu wrote:
Either learn how to read or quit distorting the facts and go back to dystat.
Sorry if that stressed you're bee-bee brain...won't do it again there champ....
Henry David T. wrote:
People that sell the bibs are acting in civil disobedience and sending a message to the power that things must change, that transfers must be allowed. Whenever you sell a bib in defiance of the "rules" of authoritarian despots who rule in the petty world of race directing at the expense of runners you "speak truth to power" and act as an agent of change.
People who commit murder, theft, rape, and child molestation are acting in civil disobedience and are sending a message to the power that things must change.
Well....either that or they're just f***ing criminals. But if they refer to themselves as "agents of change" they can convince themselves they're not doing anything wrong either.
KidStallyn, If you recall from one of your posts, I said you had some good points, one of those being the charity aspect, which you pointed out. I confess, I was not aware of the charity category; I haven't run Boston for many, many years (way before charity running was popular) Please don't twist things in order to make your point; you are not using some one else's race number to run illegally. I am already in agreement with you. Charity runners should be allowed at Boston,and I am glad you pointed that out. My gripe, if you will, is with the runners who can't/won't get in to Boston legally, whine about it, and rationalize why they should be entitled to run anyway. I will go you one further: give me the name of your charity, your name, address, etc., and I will make a sizeable donation for you, assuming you are running in 2007. STEVE
KidStallyn wrote:
Steve Hoag wrote:Using another's race number is at the least unethical and unlawful; at the worst, it is inherently DISHONEST!!
So what your saying here is that anyone running under a charity is unethical. They did not "qualify" for the Boston Marathon, yet they are gained entry through the BAA. The BAA only "asks" that they can finish the course in under 6 hours. That's it.......
So now, charitable organizations are unethical, unlawful, and inherently dishonest because they give an opportunity to a gallowalking penguin to walk the course..... Interesting concept if you ask me.
ffgdf
uuuu, how refreshing, someone can read, not distort!! I just tried explaining this to KidStyllan. I think he will get the idea!
uuuu wrote:
Either learn how to read or quit distorting the facts and go back to dystat.
Citazen's Araaaaaaaaaaest !!! Citazen's Araaaaaaaaaaaaaaest !!!! Take a big swig of reality so you'll realize ... NOBODY REALLY GIVES A RAT'S ASS !!!!
I'm a race timer, and I don't care if some fat hairy dude finishes the race and the name "Gwendolyn Snodgrass" flashes up on my screen. -- Wow, Betty Lou. You ran that there marathon in 2 hours and 36 minutes ?? Is that good ??How far WAS that marathon ?? Can I help you get your 500 pound ass out of your chair? I've had a jackass runner bitch at me because HE accidentally switched his chip with his wife and the results showed he finished a 5K in 53 minutes instead of his new PR of 27 minutes. News flash brother, the "P" in PR is for PERSONAL Record, and YOU, being the person who ran, knows what you ran, and YOU are the only one who gives a damn.
It's already been said, if you're fast enough to have a serious effect on the race results, you'll already be able to get a race number thru the race itself. And even if you do, we'll fix it when you come up to claim your prize money.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG !!! I can't believe I stooped to the level where I actually responded to you morons !!! I f&*%%^kin' hate all of you !!!! You're all evil to make me do this !!!!! F*(*&K YOU !!! ALL OF YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU !!!!!!!
midwesta, do you really comprehend everything? I had my doubts, but it looks like you cleaned up your grammar a bit and are writing in better sentences. You are learning to relax, also. Now, can you get the ethics and honesty issues regarding running with another's race number, when you, for whatever reason, decide you just have to run a certain race? I tried to put that in relatively simple language for you, so no need for exclamation points.
midwesta wrote:
I comprehend everything you say. You're not using abstract ideas here, just dumb ones. And once again, your use of capitalization and exclamation points make your posts look ridiculous.
Steve Hoag wrote:
grammar
On letsrun we spell it "grammEr."
Steve
I guess my point is that people throw around legality at the drop of a hat. There is not a law in selling a product to someone for a resource you cannot use. The only reason race director do not allow transferring race entries is liability and lost income of the person who would have signed up themselves. Who really cares if Joey Baggodonutz goes out, runs his tail off and legitimately qualifies for Boston...Then, Joey goes and drops his 90 for entry, but by luck of the draw falls and breaks his hip in a tragic early morning slippage mishap on an open bottle of K-Y jelly his 16 daughter left out from her sexploits the night before. Is it really any different that Mr. Joey sells his entry to recoup the lost 90 bux then a charitable organization letting in all of the Gallow walkers because they raised money for a good charity. The real Charity is the fact that potentially someone who was going to bandit the race maybe goes out and buys Joey's number. In this aspect, I have a far deeper respect for the person who purchases Joey's number, as money has been paid for his resources. And so what if said person goes out and places in the money....Let him have it as long as they didn't Rosey Ruiz there way to the finish line and completed all 26.2 miles....I only take issue with those that bandit the race....That, in my mind, would constitute "illegal" in any definition, as they are stealing the services from the race in which they have run. That goes for water, gels, security, and on down the line. And if your out there and going to make a donation to charities, step on up and send your money to the Pat Tillman Foundation. That the person I run for.....As for me running Boston....I will not be running....I just like to sling logic where most of this board cannot seem to comprehend.
Yeah, I can get the ethics and honesty issue, but since there's not really an issue to get, I find no need to try and get by all of your exclamation points and capital letters. I could care less what the situation is, if I had a set of tickets that I couldn't use, you better be damn sure I'm going to try and sell them. What's the point in keeping them? Ethics? Honesty? I hardly see the damage caused here, and all the reasons you're bringing up would not be reason enough for me to keep the ticket and not get my hundred bucks back.
Steve Hoag wrote:
cereal(as in flake?): people warned me a few weeks ago, when i started participating in this forum: there will be total idiots, losers, wannabe's, etc out there. Don't count on getting meaningful dialog with alot of these types. YOU, flake, take the all-time prize in all of the aforementioned categories, hands,f-----g down. Since you most-likely have never won anything in your miserable "life", please give me your name, and I will have a trophy made up for you! I know that wallowing in anonymity is more your style, I can have it engraved: "Anonymous Ass----". You and I aren't friends?! Thank God. My friends are all reasonably intelligent and articulate; that would definitely rule you out! We do agree on one thing: mattress tags should be torn off.
People warned you what? That they wouldn't lay down and take your lame arguments? I'm not intelligent because I don't agree with you? You are that asshole at the homeowners association meeting that complains because someone put a wreath on their door or their floor mat is 2" too large and when people say you are being unreasonable you scream "RULES ARE RULES". No freaking wonder you wife calls you a big dope, its because she's nice and doesn't want to call you worse. Selling your bib is not that big of deal...liability isn't even a good argument. A liability release does not release the race if they are found negligent. So all those people that warned you how bad lets run is you can go back and tell them they were right. I may be a wannabe and a loser but I swear I'm no idiot.
So if I give you my address will you send me my trophy...I never got one.
ha, nice work cereal. I agree wholeheartedly.
To answer the original poster's question, yes the BAA checks ID's at bib pickup.
KidStallyn wrote:
I guess my point is that people throw around legality at the drop of a hat. There is not a law in selling a product to someone for a resource you cannot use.
I'm no expert in contract law, but it's pretty clear to me that an entrant signed a contract that says they do not have transfer rights to the bib and the entry fee is not refundable. Reselling the bib therefore is a violation of the contract and presumably the BAA could bring a claim. We can probably agree that won't happen under normal circumstances as it is hardly worth their effort.
We could get into a discussion of moral relativism. Is it a problem that you're selling it to someone who couldn't make the qualifying standard? Is re-selling a bib worse than breaking the speed limit? Hey, none of us are perfect, you make your choices and I'll make mine. I think it's wrong to resell a bib, because I like to think signing my name to an agreement means something. I'm not going to lose sleep if you (or the original poster) chose to act otherwise.
One thing that is worth considering is the liability implications. Suppose you sell a bib to Joe Jogger and Joe drops dead of a heart attack at mile 20. What is your legal exposure? He wouldn't have been there if it weren't for you after all. Did you have Joe sign a liability waiver when you re-assigned the bib? If so, do you think that waiver should be binding or can we assume Joe respects your contract as much as you respect the BAA's?
Citizen Runner wrote:
[quote]KidStallyn wrote:
One thing that is worth considering is the liability implications. Suppose you sell a bib to Joe Jogger and Joe drops dead of a heart attack at mile 20. What is your legal exposure? He wouldn't have been there if it weren't for you after all. Did you have Joe sign a liability waiver when you re-assigned the bib? If so, do you think that waiver should be binding or can we assume Joe respects your contract as much as you respect the BAA's?
For a lot around here this is an excellent point. For the KidStallyn types, not so much. If $100 dollars is "a lot of money" to them, what are you going to get if you sue them, a playstation and a 1982 pickup truck?