big picturer wrote:
here's the killer about sabrina,
she could completely burn out and still graduate with a degree from a great institution and probably go on to cure cancer or something, living a rich and full life. she's a great athlete, an excellent student, and an even better person.
What does that have to do with running ultra-marathons????
Again, you show your ignorance Avacado, as you are criticizing me based on information you don't have. I said it was hard to run 100 mile weeks. That does not mean I haven't done many of them. I've done several dozen 100 mile weeks in my life, and they never get any easier. My point was that knowing how hard those are, a 175 mile week seems amazing to me. It also amuses me that you have resorted to attacking technicalities and sentence structure now that your point about sub 6:00 minute, 7:00 minute, etc. 50k's has completely been refuted by the detective work of Keith Stone. Face it, while many athletes "may" be able to run a sub 6:00 per mile 50k (although I doubt it based on Stone's examples), very few have, and for that reason, Sabrina is one of the faster ultramarathoning women. Case closed.
This is one of those threads where everyone wants the last word. I'm not sure what attacks you think I've made on your sentence structure. And, unless you're even dumber than I think, I doubt that you seriously believe that anything I've said has been "refuted by the detective work of Keith Stone [whoever the hell he is]."
Ms. Moran probably is "one of the faster ultramarathoning women." And within the U.S., she is undoubtedly one of the faster marathon finishers, male or female, since most people who participate in U.S. marathons take over four hours to finish, and she is able to finish one in under 3:30. That doesn't make her the "savior" of U.S. ultramarathoning, any more than your 2:33 marathon makes you the saviour of U.S. marathoning.
By the way, if 100-mile weeks never get any easier for you, even after "several dozen" of them, then you're doing something wrong.
What is Danielle Cherniak's PR and at what distance? I'm not at all trying to critize this young runner and am not saying she doesn't have potential as an ultra runner however I don't understand why you have to imply that she will be better than Nikki Kimball.
I personally know Nikki Kimball and her accomplishments are huge in the ultra scene.
Although, I don't agree with everything Avocado's Number has said he is not totally off base on all his remarks.
I'm a female marathoner that decided to run a 50K on a whim several years back and I ran a 3:49 with plenty of walking during the last 5 miles. No, I'm not a world class runner though I wish I was. I know there are plenty of other female marathoners that could kick my ass if we went head to head in the 50K but the fact is they just don't want to run a 50K or any other ultra.
I think it is a lot of pressure to try to label a 20 year old as the savior of ultra-distance running as long as she enjoys doing what she is doing and she is successful at it more power to her.
well put
BEM wrote:
What is Danielle Cherniak's PR and at what distance? I'm not at all trying to critize this young runner and am not saying she doesn't have potential as an ultra runner however I don't understand why you have to imply that she will be better than Nikki Kimball.
Danielle Cherniak was/is a much better ultra-distance runner than Kimball. She ran for Keveny Academy in the Albany area and ran about a 6:15 mile in High School. She ran at Union College (D3) in college, was about a 19:30 5K runner in college but ran a ton of miles. The rest is history.
That isn't to say Nikki Kimball is probably one of the most versatile endurance athletes in the USA. She made the national team in biathlon (both summer and winter, I believe), pretty close to a national class runner at 5K, premier trail runner, national class in ultras. My point is that this girl could be as good as her in the ultras. I think Kimball could still kick her butt in biathlon, if that makes you feel any better.
Since Sabrina Moran has posted here, do you plan to run a 100k or 100 miler this year?
"I'm a female marathoner that decided to run a 50K on a whim several years back and I ran a 3:49 with plenty of walking during the last 5 miles"
If you ran a 3:49 with plenty of walking you must a decent marathoner. So the fact that you had to do plenty of walking backs up what Keith suggests about not every marathoner running fast marathons will be able to go ultra. I know you say you did the 50k on a whim so you'll say you weren't in shape, but if you went 3:49 with your walking, you must have been in decent shape and "went for it".
BEM wrote:
I'm a female marathoner that decided to run a 50K on a whim several years back and I ran a 3:49 with plenty of walking during the last 5 miles. No, I'm not a world class runner though I wish I was. I know there are plenty of other female marathoners that could kick my ass if we went head to head in the 50K but the fact is they just don't want to run a 50K or any other ultra.
I think it is a lot of pressure to try to label a 20 year old as the savior of ultra-distance running as long as she enjoys doing what she is doing and she is successful at it more power to her.
I agree with Helping Keith but I say this story is bunk. You ran a 50K on a whim and you walked a lot in the last 5 miles. Figure you covered each of the last 5 miles in 13 minutes each, that means the last 5 miles would take over an hour, so you split the marathon in about 2:44. Pretty darn good for someone running on a whim, not national class, who knew she had another 8 Kilometers to go. Sounds fishy to me.
Not fishy at all. I came through the marathon in 3:08 so my last 5 miles was 41 minutes. So I was at a low 7:00 pace and then went over 8:00 pace for the last 5 miles.
I didn't say I wasn't in shape. I trained for the marathon but didn't have a great fall so I dropped out the two marathons I entered in the fall. So I decided 4 days before the 50K that I would run because I had done the marathon training so I figured why not run the 50K.
My marathon pr at the time was 2:57 not a bad time but certainly not national class level. If you care to look it up it was the Nifty 50 50K I think it was 2002 but I could be wrong on the year.
I still don't know who Danielle Cherniak is but I do know that Nikki Kimball did win the National 50 mile trail championships about 7 years in a row. Not to mention her Western States wins etc.
I still don't see how trying to knock down another runner serves as positive advice for this young 20 year old runner.
English must be a second language for you. Where have I said anything bad about Nikki Kimball? All I said was based on this girl's mileage and her high school times, she could be better and Cherniak was better. Am I insulting Steve Scott if I say Jim Ryan was better than he was and Alan Webb could be better? I don't think so.
is sabrina related to ed?
TYD wrote:
...im pretty sure most of us dont agree with you.
If a sole criterion were established for assuming that an argument made here is legitimate, this would be it.
Chances are pretty good that if you're hounded by the usual gang of half-literate, shoot-from-the-hip, emotion-over-reason ape-people for posting something, you probably nailed it.
Keith is at least basing his disupting Avocado's assertions on something tangible. The rest of you appear to be fans or friends of the unfortunate subject of the thread who, on that basis or owing to inherent factors, cannot or will not do simple math. There is probably also the usual smattering of ultrarunners who perceive anything coming from outside the ultramarathon crowd as both unfounded and harsh.
Avocado is right. Road 50Ks don't come around nearly as often as marathons do, so the claim that someone could probably run X given her time at Y by definition becomes that much more of a hypothetical exercise than saying someone could run such-and-such a marathon based on this or that 10-mile time. You can look at the marathon times of the top American women 50K (like Dana Parrot and Nikki Kimball) if you need hard data, and I assure you these data support exactly the premise Avocado posits. Additionally, Alex Tilson is one decent American male I know of who gave 50K a serious crack, and he ran 2:51:47 with a marathon PR of 2:22:45. I know of few others who ran 50Ks at the time they were still fast at the marathon, but know that some pretty ordinary marathoners, men and women, have moved up and pretty much toyed with some everyday 50K fields. Big deal. There's no real incentive for good runners to make a habit of running 50Ks.
People realy need to understand that it is not a criticism to note that someone is not world-class and never will be, any more than it is pessimistic to point out that we're all going to be dead soon. Avocado may have his own detached admiration for someone who runs 25 miles a day for any reason, but this is distinct from his evaluation of such a person's abilities. And even if he doesn't, this doesn't detract from her efforts. Ironically, it's the blind loudmouths here who are coloring these.
True 'toga Blue wrote:
English must be a second language for you.
...Jim Ryan
Despite much of this forum's allure lying in its rarely matched levels of ironic content, I recommend that you stop criticizing BEM's English immediately.
Nikki Kimball is actually not the best unwitting victim in this because she is a true monster at real ultras, i.e., the ones that don't take only three or four hours to run and aren't conducted on comfy road routes. The average person who could match her on a basic 50K probably wouldn't be within an hour or two of her at, say, Western States.
wm grad wrote:
is sabrina related to ed?
No, but I heard they were dating.
Well, I hope she does run a 100K this year and runs it well shuts up all you naysayers
Judging by reading just a few posts on this thread about my friend Sabrina, who just loves to run, I would say maybe you should all embrace her love of running and maybe catch a few more miles instead of talking about someone you've never met. But really, besides just happening on this through a search, do you think anyone cares that much? Focus on your own times.
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True 'Toga Blue wrote:
She's 20 and averages 25 miles a day. Will she be the savior of the USA for ultra-marathons or crash and burn? Read and decide:
http://poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070111/SPORTS06/701110311/1039