Run in with park police

I've noticed with my running that dawn is 30 minutes before sunset, and dusk is 30 minutes after sundown.

As you were in the park 10 minutes after sunset, there were still 20 minutes before dusk.

I would go to court with this information but listen carefully to the judge and be respectful to everyone.

Had you just said "yes sir, I will be more careful next time!" you wouldn't need to be going through all this now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dusk

Monon Runner wrote:

Well, you've actually figured this out for me, and I appreciate that. The ticket was from last Saturday, and here's the data:

11 November 2006 Eastern Standard Time

Sunset 5:32 p.m.

End civil twilight 6:01 p.m.

The ticket was for 6:04, he probably stopped me before 6:01, but since the ticket says 6:04, I'm GUILTY AS CHARGED. Thanks for the help.

Maybe not. Argue that you were on your way out of the park and would have been out before dusk (6:01pm) except that the ranger accosted you and held you in the park until after 6:01pm and then gave you the ticket. Argue that the only reason you were in the park after dusk was because you were obeying the rangers order to halt.

I also like the idea of calling the park office and asking someone for a definition of the term dusk as used in the ordinance. They may give you a definition that helps your case. Make a recording of the call, just in case, so that you can play it back in court.

I just told you guys what to argue, the park ranger was having homosexual relations and wanted to keep it a seceret.

You win no matter what, put the park ranger on the stand, start asking questions about what goes on in the park after dark and why was he worried about you, a runner,then insinuate he the park ranger was knee deep in cock and then after the trial snicker and laugh not matter what the outcome.

Snowbear wrote:

Make a recording of the call, just in case, so that you can play it back in court.

illegally taping the phone call will surely impress the judge.

gorney wrote:

illegally taping the phone call will surely impress the judge.

Just ask permission before you tape the call.

Wow. I've never heard of somebody being ticketed because he was in a park after hours. I suspect the ranger was a tad bored?

Monon Runner wrote:

The other side of me would really like to know exactly what "dusk" is

Dusk is 1/2 hour after sunset, when it becomes dark.

Interesting thread.

I've always wondered exactly what dusk is. I used to take it as when it was half light. It used to worry me in parks which had notices like "these gates are locked at dusk" and you have driven there and you can only park inside the gates.

3 areas of comment:

1.There have been 2 muggings of bicyclists on the Monon in the last several weeks, all well publicized, and everyone's a bit up tight about it, demanding more police presence, etc. So security types are cognizant of this too.

2.There are always 2 sides ( at least) to every story and we have only heard yours. At a minimum you handled a difficult and possibly unfair situation poorly.

3. In reference to how you handled the situation, please remember that there are 3 things, all bad, that a policeman or security person "packing" can do to you:

1. give you a ticket

2.take you to jail

3. shoot you

[q]Monon Runner RE: Run in with park police 11/17/2006 9:50AM - in reply to ? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

OK, sunset is 6:04. What time is dusk? Thanks!

? RE: Run in with park police 11/17/2006 9:53AM - in reply to Monon Runner Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Are you serious? You don't understand the concept of dusk?[/q]

Dusk and Twilight is the period after the sun sets, yet before dark, usally 30 mins, maybe more. In town it is hard to tell if it's dusk or twilight because of the city lights reflection off of clouds.

I say go get the court date and explain that you thought it was dusk and also explain the behavior of the officer. I run at night in local parks all the time. The Monon Trail has a history of being safe. If this officer sees you all the time I don't understand his attitude either.

Why don't you tell everybody what the f*** you gotta say?

f*** tha police

Comin straight from the underground

Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown

And not the other color so police think

They have the authority to kill a minority

f*** that shit, cuz I ain't tha one

For a punk muthaf***a with a badge and a gun

To be beatin on, and throwin in jail

We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell

f***in with me cuz I'm a teenager

With a little bit of gold and a pager

Searchin my car, lookin for the product

Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics

You'd rather see me in the pen

Then me and Lorenzo rollin in the Benzo

Beat tha police outta shape

And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape

To tape off the scene of the slaughter

Still can't swallow bread and water

I don't know if they fags or what

Search a nigga down and grabbin his nuts

And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none

But don't let it be a black and a white one

Cuz they slam ya down to the street top

Black police showin out for the white cop

Ice Cube will swarm

On any muthaf***a in a blue uniform

Just cuz I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me

A young nigga on a warpath

And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath

Of cops, dyin in LA

Yo Dre, I got somethin to say

f*** the police (4X)M. C. Ren, will you please give your testimony to the jury about this f***ed up incident.>

f*** tha police and Ren said it with authority

because the niggaz on the street is a majority.

A gang, is with whoever I'm stepping

and the motherf***in' weapon

is kept in a stash box, for the so-called law

wishin' Ren was a nigga that they never saw

Lights start flashin behind me

But they're scared of a nigga so they mace me to blind me

But that shit don't work, I just laugh

Because it gives em a hint not to step in my path

To the police I'm sayin f*** you punk

Readin my rights and shit, it's all junk

Pullin out a silly club, so you stand

With a fake assed badge and a gun in your hand

But take off the gun so you can see what's up

And we'll go at it punk, I'ma f*** you up

Make ya think I'm a kick your ass

But drop your gat, and Ren's gonna blast

I'm sneaky as f*** when it comes to crime

But I'm a smoke em now, and not next time

Smoke any muthaf***a that sweats me

Or any assho that threatens me

I'm a sniper with a hell of a scope

Takin out a cop or two, they can't cope with me

The muthaf***in villian that's mad

With potential to get bad as f***

So I'm a turn it around

Put in my clip, yo, and this is the sound

Ya, somethin like that, but it all depends on the size of the gat

Takin out a police would make my day

But a nigga like Ren don't give a f*** to say

f*** the police (4X)

Police, open now. We have a warrant for Eazy-E's arrest.

Get down and put your hands up where I can see em.

Just shut the f*** up and get your muthaf***in ass on the floor.

[huh?]>

and tell the jury how you feel abou this bullshit.>

I'm tired of the muthaf***in jackin

Sweatin my gang while I'm chillin in the shackin

Shining tha light in my face, and for what

Maybe it's because I kick so much butt

I kick ass, or maybe cuz I blast

On a stupid assed nigga when I'm playin with the trigga

Of any Uzi or an AK

Cuz the police always got somethin stupid to say

They put up my picture with silence

Cuz my identity by itself causes violence

The E with the criminal behavior

Yeah, I'm a gansta, but still I got flavor

Without a gun and a badge, what do ya got?

A sucka in a uniform waitin to get shot,

By me, or another nigga.

and with a gat it don't matter if he's smarter or bigger

[MC Ren: Sidle him, kid, he's from the old school, fool]

And as you all know, E's here to rule

Whenever I'm rollin, keep lookin in the mirror

And there's no cue, yo, so I can hear a

Dumb muthaf***a with a gun

And if I'm rollin off the 8, he'll be tha one

That I take out, and then get away

And while I'm drivin off laughin

This is what I'll say

f*** the police (4X)

The jury has found you guilty of bein a redneck,

whitebread, chickenshit muthaf***a.

Wait, that's a lie. That's a goddamn lie.

I want justice! I want justice!

f*** you, you black muthaf***a!>

f*** the police (3X)

as someone who has been bitten while running in local parks by several "friendly" off-leash dogs, i'd say, good for the ranger.

first of all, you're an idiot.

second of all, I've been stopped 3 times already in my short life for the same reason you have been. 2 times I ran the fvck away and that was that. the first time though, I gave a fake name, which was the name of a local businessman. It was kinda funny. anyways, you never carry ID on you when you run and you always bring a small snack in case you gotta run from da cops.

Then if the park closes AT dusk, it closes at the moment the sunset ends. That should be fairly easy to tell.

I also run on the Monon for the last year and a half and have a never seen a cop on the path until a few weeks ago. I was behind the police car coming up on it when another runner was coming towards me, he said the got is yelling at people to get off the path and threatening to write tickets. So i ran through someones yard onto the adjacent street run down a bit and cut back onto the monon a 1/4 mile ahead of the cop and kept going.

Last night we saw headlights about 1/2 mile down and as we got closer a spotlight was shown on me and my friend, so at the next street we took a right before the cop could get closer.

My question is, if a cop stops us, should we run? I would run the opposite way is car is pointed, because there is no room for him to turn around, he can't catch us on foot and he has no rear facing lights. Also how can they verify who you are without an ID? Did they ask for your SSN?

I understand it might be unsafe for people to be out, but it is the same difference as walking down a sidewalk. I am sorry I work all day and can't run until 5:30-6, I am going to still run regardless, so are they saying running down the streets at night is safer? I guess I just might be running down the Central Canal Tow Path more often, since there is no room for a car on there.

Found this article today, but look at what time this happened:

After a weekend mugging on the Monon Trail, during overnight hours when the path is closed, police are reassuring users that the trail is generally safe but that pedestrians should heed posted hours.

The mugging occurred about 2:20 a.m. Saturday, said Sgt. Matthew Mount, spokesman for the Indianapolis Police Department. Twin 23-year-old brothers who live in the 5900 block of Carvel Avenue were on the trail, in the 6000 block, with their dates, 19-year-old and 21-year-old women, both from Carmel, Mount said.

Three men, one of whom displayed a silver-colored handgun and demanded their money and wallets, confronted the couples. In all, the robbers got about $50. One of the brothers was hit in the head but did not require medical attention.

There have been two other muggings or attacks on the Monon in the past several months, including one in which a man sustained serious injuries from a beating. That's also about the same number of such incidents that occurred in the previous two or three years, Mount said.

During hours when the Monon is open -- just as city parks, it is open from sunrise to sunset and closed overnight -- park rangers patrol the trail in squad cars about every hour, Mount said. Overnight, district IPD officers keep an eye on it but don't divert street resources to the trail, he said.

"It is supposed to be closed then," Mount said.

I would say this mugging was purely coincidental. It's not like thugs are hanging out in the trees there at 59th/60th street waiting for someone to walk by at 2:20 am. More likely someone followed them out of the bar with the intent of robbing them and just waited until they were far enough away from everyone. They just happened to walk down a dark, unlit trail -- not the smartest thing to do.

You sound pretty reasonable, so I'd say go to court and tell your story (if the officer even shows up). Definitely be polite and tell the TRUTH without stretching any facts. You first said it was about 10 minutes after sunset, but it's been discovered that the ticket was actually issues at 33 minutes after sunset. Explain to the judge that even the officer was about to let you go, but got pissed when you simply questioned exactly when was "dusk". If the judge mentions the muggings (which were LATE at night) in warning you about being there, (POLITELY!) make sure to mention that this was ~6 hours from when you were in the area, so it's a different situation.

Rent a cops. They're everywhere.