Whatever Happened to Junxia Wang?

cock ring wrote:

listen racist. go back and read my original post. and then go and check the iaaf tables. surprise, surprise, you learn something everyday now. A long, long time ago a man ran 2:06, and it took another ten years before that kind of time was approached. Every now and then you are going to get a superb performance that is an outlier. that is how WR's work. check out Komen's 7:20 for example. I have listed very good reasons why the Chinese performed like they did in 1993, my argument still stands. And to the other poster, no I am not calling him racist because I am "losing an argument" or "have no other thing to think about" it's because he is.

Ok, I've had it with you. You can call me a racist if I can call you a child molestor.

The "good reasons" you have given are not convincing at all.

1. they trained harder than you

2. they are more talented than you

3. they are more intelligent than you

4. they knew what they were doing, you don't

5. they ran faster than you.

listen, it's like your whole point for posting is to lambast times that happened 13yrs ago and not listen to any evidence from the other side. why even bother asking for reasons if you just won't consider it. unlike you, i actually was in china during those races and those times were scrutinized a TON by athletes and coaches NOT from Ma's Team, but people knew he had taken some very tough girls and just trained the sh*t out of them because it was such a high profile meet. this is not the US champs where regional pride isn't on the line, this is the Chinese nationals where it means a buttload. I am sorry if your brain can't get across this simple concept. We won't see 8:06 any time soon because people aren't ready to combine genetic luck with extreme hard training, that will undoubtedly lead to a shorter career.

cock ring wrote:

We won't see 8:06 any time soon because people aren't ready to combine genetic luck with extreme hard training

Exactly.

Thank you for calming down...somewhat. My "whole point" here has been to raise the exact same questions--and disbelief--that serious track fans have been raising since 1993. I'm really not "special" in this regard at all--and I didn't start this thread! As a historian of the sport, my primary goal is simply to point out how unprecedented this week of performances was. No one can deny that: there is nothing in all of track history that comes even close. You mention someone like Komen and his 7:20. Well, yes, Komen broke the standing WR by 4.5 seconds. That's very good and all, but it's not remotely as astonishing as what happened in '93 in both the heats and in the final of the 3000. And Komen didn't demolish the 10k record and edge the 1500 record with a couple days of his 7:20. Etc. So, yes, there are outlier performances and there are performances (both individual and collective) that are more than "simple" outliers.

The reason? YOu and a few others say that this group simply trained incredibly hard. I believe they did. No question. I also believe that that's not enough of an answer. I've also said I have no real idea what "the" answer is.

It's nice that you were in China. I'd enjoy going sometime myself. But your experience with the Chinese and my (to date) lack of experience with the Chinese doesn't change much of anything here.

i think it's you who has to calm down. it's like spoonfeeding information to a baby here. the womens distances haven't been around half as long as the mens, so yes, bug improvements are going to more magnified than ones on the mens side. duh. so in addition to being racist you are shortsighted. you are basically a troll for totally disregarding whatever doesn't seem to fit your model of the world. why don't you just log off your computer and tell yourself they are on drugs. that's originally what you thought and basically you are just trolling here to get people to agree with you instead of having another take on the matter. sheesh.

cock ring wrote:

i think it's you who has to calm down. it's like spoonfeeding information to a baby here. the womens distances haven't been around half as long as the mens, so yes, bug improvements are going to more magnified than ones on the mens side. duh. so in addition to being racist you are shortsighted. you are basically a troll for totally disregarding whatever doesn't seem to fit your model of the world. why don't you just log off your computer and tell yourself they are on drugs. that's originally what you thought and basically you are just trolling here to get people to agree with you instead of having another take on the matter. sheesh.

Clearly you are incapable of civil discourse or rational thought. The field is yours. Spread whatever angry nonsense you please.

old tymer wrote:

4. surgically altered men pretending to be women

In the link I provided on a previous page, it said that Junxia Wang had had a baby in 2001. That would be completely bizarre if the above was true (at least for Wang)!

I tried to find the book about Ma's Army, but it doesn't appear to be available in any library's in the US.

old tymer don't listen to this troll....

Most people would agree with you that something funny was going on at this race....

This idiot is calling you a racist because he knows he is on the losing end of an argument....

No one doubts that ONE record could fall by a lot in ONE race.....

The thing that this idiot want acknowledge is that so many records fell during ONE TRACK MEET....that NEVER HAPPENS....name one time in MODERN history when that many records fell in one track meet.

But this guy really can't say why other than the fact that he went to China and loves the Chinese people and that it was women breaking the records.

He even brings up Radcliff...but what he doesn't say is that its easy to drop 2 or three minutes in a marathon because its so long....its not so easy to drop a huge chunk out of the 3000 record.

old tymer wrote:

your experience with the Chinese and my (to date) lack of experience with the Chinese doesn't change much of anything here.

I would say that makes all the difference in the world.

You said the improvement in the times was astonishing.

Yes it certainly was, but not out of line.

Wang Junxia ran the 1500 meters in 3:51, and won the Gold Medal in the World Championships for the marathon.

Those who ran around 8:22 previously, i.e. Mary Decker, Tatanya Kazankina at all, were neither as fast nor as enduring. Consider that Wang Junxia was already 5 to 7 faster for the 1500 meters. This alone would give her 10 to 15 seconds at 3000. However she was also more enduring! Her strength at the marathon as compared to the others, would certainly give her at least another 1 to 6 seconds.

Viola! Now you have an 8:06 for the 3k, and not surprising at all.

Also Wang Junxia's times are in line with the other events.

cock ring wrote:

i think it has a lot to do with it. funny, how you are not denying your antipathy of the Chinese. I put forth several reasons why they had the performances they did. If you check the iaaf tables, the 8:06 isn't that far from the other times.

You don't think? All time list for the 3k below. 8 of the top 10 times are from that one weekend in '93. I am very happy to believe that the Chinese could dominate because they are prepared to train harder or they had selected well from the massive pool of talent at their disposal. I am also quite convinced that hard work and talent played a major part in their success, whatever else may or may not have been going on. But there is something strange about that one meeting, they haven't come close to matching them again, surely you have to admit this is a bit odd? And given all these reasons that have been cited for their success, why has it stopped?

8:06.11 Junxia Wang CHN 09 01 1973 1 Beijing 13 09 1993

8:12.18 Yunxia Qu CHN 25 12 1972 2 Beijing 13 09 1993

8:12.19 Junxia Wang 1h2 Beijing 12 09 1993

8:12.27 Yunxia Qu 2h2 Beijing 12 09 1993

8:16.50 Linli Zhang CHN 06 03 1973 3 Beijing 13 09 1993

8:19.78 Liyan Ma CHN 03 11 1968 3h2 Beijing 12 09 1993

8:21.26 Liyan Ma 4 Beijing 13 09 1993

8:21.42 Gabriela Szabo ROM 14 11 1975 1 Monaco 19 07 2002

8:21.64 Sonia O'Sullivan IRL 28 11 1969 1 London 15 07 1994

8:21.84 Lirong Zhang CHN 03 03 1973 5 Beijing 13 09 1993

My question is how many men today can run 29:31.70, 8:12.19, 8:06.11, and 3:51.92 in a 5 day period?

Now imagine you are a woman and all of those are superior to the current World Record.

I don't even know if drugs can do that. Maybe there was no rail and they cut far inside the lane. Maybe they started far in front of the real start line. Then they could ratify the track all they want. Do they ever go back and verify where they started?

I have heard that Wang's last 5000 AND last 3000 of that WR 10000 were faster than the WR's for those distances.

If the start line was far ahead of the real 200m start that would explain normal 1000m and 1600m opening splits and very fast 5000m and 300m closing splits.

No doubt Wang was good regardless. She did win Gold in 1996 in front of the whole world.

J. R. wrote:

Wang Junxia ran the 1500 meters in 3:51, and won the Gold Medal in the World Championships for the marathon.

Perhaps you could remind us when she won that marathon.

You speak to much sense for cock ring

Everyone believes that the Chinese have the ability to be the best with the amount of people they have

But one meet should not have produced all their top times with the Chinese never really able to get back to those times...that only is very strange

but this guy will only see racism and not see logic

Cock ring is an ass. Stop aknowledging his posts. Total dunce.

Maybe this was already posted and I missed it, but didn't Wang have a falling out with Ma and end up winning gold in Atlanta training under a different coach? I think that at least gives her a bit more credibility.

As for all the times at the '93 Asian games, I'm not going to even pretend to believe those are clean records. Whatever unethical principles Ma was using worked better than anything else in distance running history for that week. Perhaps they all had unborn chimeric twins?

Did she win the 5 in '96? Because I know she didn't win the 10 (Ribeiro - Portugal).....

Also, for the last 13 years I always thought her name was Wang Junxia, not Junxia Wang..........?

Maybe the turtles and caterpillars got her!

Doesn't Radcliffe store samples of her own blood and urine so that they can be tested at any point in history?!? How many dopers do that??