Having been on both sides of this equation, I will say that altitude conversions are very real and needed. We always look slow based on time every year coming down to Woodbridge, yet we have won 4 in a row. Why? Because we look a lot slower at Altitude than we will at sea level. A 4:10 at elevation is a 4:05 at sea level. Utah and Colorado are that loaded. . . .
First, thank you very much for posting on this forum.
You & other coach's such as Mike Scannell offer wonderful opportunities to us distance running fans to interact with you and gain insights into how you train your athletes and what we can look forward to from them.
Echo your sentiments regarding altitude conversions. Always seem controversial, especially with the 3200.
You mentioned Woodbridge above.
Happy you referred back to the xc season as I would like to bring up the Clovis Invite @ Woodward Park a few weeks later.
Since German Fernandez's 14:24.0/CR from 2007 had withstood the onslaught from the Newbury Park boys as well as everyone else dating back to when Woodward's various xc courses were laid out back in 1975, frankly was beginning to believe German's time was going to last thru the middle of the century.
Then your boy Jackson Spencer took it down to 14:16.9.
Just a couple seconds off the all-time course record of 14:14.5 set by 32-year-old professional Diego Estrada in 2022.
Those of us who follow CA xc running know how unbelievable that mark is, given the hilly and terrain-changing nature of the Woodward Park course. Significantly better performance than Colin Sahlman's 14:03.29 all-time fastest hs 5k xc time set back in 2001 when he won the RunningLane national title on that pancake-flat course. And, most likely, several seconds under 14-flat if run on a course like Woodbridge or RunningLane.
Of all the races Jackson ran last fall and this winter, that stands out, by far, as the most impressive. Mindboggling, actually.
So, questions: (1) was his intent to break German's record that day? (2) did you have any notion he could break 14:20, much less take it all the way down into the 14:16s? (3) was that his best race ever, even surpassing his national title wins?
Thank you, Coach Soles, for responding if you see this and get the chance.
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
First, thank you very much for posting on this forum.
You & other coach's such as Mike Scannell offer wonderful opportunities to us distance running fans to interact with you and gain insights into how you train your athletes and what we can look forward to from them.
Echo your sentiments regarding altitude conversions. Always seem controversial, especially with the 3200.
You mentioned Woodbridge above.
Happy you referred back to the xc season as I would like to bring up the Clovis Invite @ Woodward Park a few weeks later.
Since German Fernandez's 14:24.0/CR from 2007 had withstood the onslaught from the Newbury Park boys as well as everyone else dating back to when Woodward's various xc courses were laid out back in 1975, frankly was beginning to believe German's time was going to last thru the middle of the century.
Then your boy Jackson Spencer took it down to 14:16.9.
Just a couple seconds off the all-time course record of 14:14.5 set by 32-year-old professional Diego Estrada in 2022.
Those of us who follow CA xc running know how unbelievable that mark is, given the hilly and terrain-changing nature of the Woodward Park course. Significantly better performance than Colin Sahlman's 14:03.29 all-time fastest hs 5k xc time set back in 2001 when he won the RunningLane national title on that pancake-flat course. And, most likely, several seconds under 14-flat if run on a course like Woodbridge or RunningLane.
Of all the races Jackson ran last fall and this winter, that stands out, by far, as the most impressive. Mindboggling, actually.
So, questions: (1) was his intent to break German's record that day? (2) did you have any notion he could break 14:20, much less take it all the way down into the 14:16s? (3) was that his best race ever, even surpassing his national title wins?
Thank you, Coach Soles, for responding if you see this and get the chance.
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
I'm a former SoCal HS coach and large meet director and my take is that Rich does a very difficult job fairly well. Doug Soles noted above the drawbacks of not having someone like Rich in his current setting. When someone is willing to invest as much as Rich does in this meet, you get a huge benefit along with a few quirks. In my experience, Rich received (but didn't always grant) reasoned requests, and corrected mistakes quickly and with thanks.
It is interesting to note that the grumbling in this thread is almost (or all?) about distance runners getting in or getting in the right race, and my primary gripe with Arcadia is the way it has become more and more centered around the 1600 & 3200 over the years. And even at the expense of 800 runners - there have been many years with only one featured section of the 800 alongside several in the 1600 and 3200.
But all that said - the "Proximity Effect" was/is real - the closer your school is to Arcadia, the harder it is to get into the Saturday night events. This has been the case for at least 25 years.
First, thank you very much for posting on this forum.
You & other coach's such as Mike Scannell offer wonderful opportunities to us distance running fans to interact with you and gain insights into how you train your athletes and what we can look forward to from them.
Echo your sentiments regarding altitude conversions. Always seem controversial, especially with the 3200.
You mentioned Woodbridge above.
Happy you referred back to the xc season as I would like to bring up the Clovis Invite @ Woodward Park a few weeks later.
Since German Fernandez's 14:24.0/CR from 2007 had withstood the onslaught from the Newbury Park boys as well as everyone else dating back to when Woodward's various xc courses were laid out back in 1975, frankly was beginning to believe German's time was going to last thru the middle of the century.
Then your boy Jackson Spencer took it down to 14:16.9.
Just a couple seconds off the all-time course record of 14:14.5 set by 32-year-old professional Diego Estrada in 2022.
Those of us who follow CA xc running know how unbelievable that mark is, given the hilly and terrain-changing nature of the Woodward Park course. Significantly better performance than Colin Sahlman's 14:03.29 all-time fastest hs 5k xc time set back in 2001 when he won the RunningLane national title on that pancake-flat course. And, most likely, several seconds under 14-flat if run on a course like Woodbridge or RunningLane.
Of all the races Jackson ran last fall and this winter, that stands out, by far, as the most impressive. Mindboggling, actually.
So, questions: (1) was his intent to break German's record that day? (2) did you have any notion he could break 14:20, much less take it all the way down into the 14:16s? (3) was that his best race ever, even surpassing his national title wins?
Thank you, Coach Soles, for responding if you see this and get the chance.
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
Coach Soles
47? Holy cow
I believe the video of his leg was shown on Instagram on the Trelease page. I believe the athlete he beat won the 400m invite that day. He has wheels...
But all that said - the "Proximity Effect" was/is real - the closer your school is to Arcadia, the harder it is to get into the Saturday night events. This has been the case for at least 25 years.
Arcadia has become a national meet, which puts a national media spotlight on Cal. This can largely be a good thing.
This could also explain why national and regional runners get preference over local athletes.
If this problem was deemed to have merit, another school could host a meet the same weekend and focus on best local runners.
All coaches seem to not like the guy. But obviously he has favorites. How does that work?
How has gotten so much power unchecked? Just the one meet? nike ?
I think it's odd just that he has the opportunity to help California kids but seems to do the opposite and show more favoritism to other states.
Aidan Antonio ran 4:06 last year. Jude Ritzenhein has run 4:10. Jude gets in the invite and Aidan can't even get in the seeded. Guys like Bowman, Alberts getting screwed...
These kinds of posts are quite funny. Someone feels like their friend gets slighted so they make an over the top exaggerated accusation without any knowledge of the real situation.
I can go line by line: (Mostly ignoring grammatical errors and missing words)
Starting with the title: Rich has a lot of influence but does not really have the "power" that you think he does. He has influence because he is the most knowledgeable person in the state in regards to the sports of cross country and track and field. He does endless research and knows his stuff.
There are many coaches who like Rich. There are many coaches who don't. Most coaches don't know Rich, they only know the meet manager for Arcadia Invitational.
He is the meet manager for the Arcadia Invitational so he gets to make decisions for that meet as he sees fit. That is not "too much Power in CA"
His knowledge is certainly not "one meet." Rich provides weekly rankings in the Southern Section, he works on the cross country and track advisory committees, he researches tirelessly and has vast amounts of historical data to back up what he sees and says.
Why does he have to only help California kids? His job as meet manager of Arcadia Invitational is to put on the best meet and get attention for his meet to draw fans to hopefully make money. He has continued to grow the meet from the great event that it was with Doug Speck.
The actual point of the post is clear from what you even stated. Aiden Antonio ran 4:06 LAST YEAR and has not been at that level THIS YEAR. Jude Ritzenhein ran 4:10 THIS YEAR. There is not even an argument to be made.
I hope the meet can avoid some of the horrible predicted weather this weekend. I am sure Rich is cursing the rain clouds as we speak.
And yes, I do know Rich and have known him for many years dating back to when I used to coach.
weather looks fine as of now, the 3200s will have great conditions. there is possibility of light rain in the morning and mid day but that is all as of now.
First, thank you very much for posting on this forum.
You & other coach's such as Mike Scannell offer wonderful opportunities to us distance running fans to interact with you and gain insights into how you train your athletes and what we can look forward to from them.
Echo your sentiments regarding altitude conversions. Always seem controversial, especially with the 3200.
You mentioned Woodbridge above.
Happy you referred back to the xc season as I would like to bring up the Clovis Invite @ Woodward Park a few weeks later.
Since German Fernandez's 14:24.0/CR from 2007 had withstood the onslaught from the Newbury Park boys as well as everyone else dating back to when Woodward's various xc courses were laid out back in 1975, frankly was beginning to believe German's time was going to last thru the middle of the century.
Then your boy Jackson Spencer took it down to 14:16.9.
Just a couple seconds off the all-time course record of 14:14.5 set by 32-year-old professional Diego Estrada in 2022.
Those of us who follow CA xc running know how unbelievable that mark is, given the hilly and terrain-changing nature of the Woodward Park course. Significantly better performance than Colin Sahlman's 14:03.29 all-time fastest hs 5k xc time set back in 2001 when he won the RunningLane national title on that pancake-flat course. And, most likely, several seconds under 14-flat if run on a course like Woodbridge or RunningLane.
Of all the races Jackson ran last fall and this winter, that stands out, by far, as the most impressive. Mindboggling, actually.
So, questions: (1) was his intent to break German's record that day? (2) did you have any notion he could break 14:20, much less take it all the way down into the 14:16s? (3) was that his best race ever, even surpassing his national title wins?
Thank you, Coach Soles, for responding if you see this and get the chance.
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
Coach Soles
Not surprised at all by his :47. His 1:49 split last year combined with his massive improvements in XC taking down a course record by an all-timer with an all-timer coach pushing the buttons on his improvement...it's all coming together. Last fall, I said he could take down Webb's high school record in the mile. Is that a goal this spring?
I have watched back all of Jackson's races from XC a few times, and yes I thought his Clovis race was his best performance. I've spent a lot of time on that course, and most really good boys struggle to even run 4:50-5:00 the last mile. Jackson ran 4:24.xx on it the last mile, which I have never seen anyone else do before. Most people are holding on, he was pushing to get the record. Even as his coach, it was extremely impressive.
The goals going into the meet were to get Jackson another elite level meet and to go after the record. We were fairly certain he would be close to it based off the Friday race performances. 14:17 was much faster than I was hoping for. 14:22-23 was a reasonable guess for a perfect race. He broke it by that much because he hammered the last 800, something that rarely happens on that course at the front end of races. Mile 2 takes a lot out of you.
Ultimately, when you are an elite level runner you still have to prove yourself. Jackson has to step up at Arcadia and show he is still the top dog, or someone like Mantecon will come in and prove otherwise. Jackson looks ready to challenge 8:30 at sea level, so it should be a fun race! Last year, he went on a cruise right before Arcadia and wasn't ready for the race. This spring break he focused on training and is looking ready. He split a 47 in the 4x400 the other day, so he is looking ready to finish fast.
Coach Soles
Not surprised at all by his :47. His 1:49 split last year combined with his massive improvements in XC taking down a course record by an all-timer with an all-timer coach pushing the buttons on his improvement...it's all coming together. Last fall, I said he could take down Webb's high school record in the mile. Is that a goal this spring?
He faces Caden Leonard at the Nike Jesuit Relays in Portland in a few weeks with the goal to break 4 min for the full mile. If he does that, he will probably set a higher time goal for the Hoka Festival of Miles in June. :)
Not surprised at all by his :47. His 1:49 split last year combined with his massive improvements in XC taking down a course record by an all-timer with an all-timer coach pushing the buttons on his improvement...it's all coming together. Last fall, I said he could take down Webb's high school record in the mile. Is that a goal this spring?
He faces Caden Leonard at the Nike Jesuit Relays in Portland in a few weeks with the goal to break 4 min for the full mile. If he does that, he will probably set a higher time goal for the Hoka Festival of Miles in June. :)
He faces Caden Leonard at the Nike Jesuit Relays in Portland in a few weeks with the goal to break 4 min for the full mile. If he does that, he will probably set a higher time goal for the Hoka Festival of Miles in June. :)
Pre Invite in July with dedicated pacers?
He might be gone for his Mission by then, but I'm not sure on that one...I haven't heard from anyone from the Pre Classic to discuss it with him.
He might be gone for his Mission by then, but I'm not sure on that one...I haven't heard from anyone from the Pre Classic to discuss it with him.
Coach Soles
I'm sure you will though. And very soon.
I think he is planning on Festival of Miles, NB Nationals, and then a Portland 5K. You can only be record ready for so long, so I'm not sure if he plans on racing into July. It is up to him.
I think he is planning on Festival of Miles, NB Nationals, and then a Portland 5K. You can only be record ready for so long, so I'm not sure if he plans on racing into July. It is up to him.
Yeah, would've been a no brainer in 2001. The Pre Classic was held on 5/27 when Webb set the record. I have no idea why it keeps getting pushed back, but times changes and so do other meeting offerings.
I think he is planning on Festival of Miles, NB Nationals, and then a Portland 5K. You can only be record ready for so long, so I'm not sure if he plans on racing into July. It is up to him.
Yeah, would've been a no brainer in 2001. The Pre Classic was held on 5/27 when Webb set the record. I have no idea why it keeps getting pushed back, but times changes and so do other meeting offerings.
Yeah I wonder why it’s on July 4 this year. Must be an arbitrary date. Surely it has no historical significance.
Yeah, would've been a no brainer in 2001. The Pre Classic was held on 5/27 when Webb set the record. I have no idea why it keeps getting pushed back, but times changes and so do other meeting offerings.
schedule is probably tied to diamond league status and/or usatf nationals which is also in eugene. or, maybe the prefontaine meet director has too much unchecked power and moves it wherever on the calendar...