Frick no the price isn't worth it. College is Scam-ish, depending on what you major in. Liberal arts. LOL. Have to listen to out-of-touch professors too who usually don't stick to the course material. If you're going to go then go to a party school. Smash on the reg. If you're a winner you will win no matter if you go to an ivy, probably leaving with massive debt, or a party school.
once you add TWO qualifiers its just not the same thing. sorry, SMU is not Princeton.
Yep, I agree, SMU is no Princeton, but not many schools are. Is SMU a hidden Ivy, because that would be news to me? I think it’s probably only the fourth best school in TX behind Rice, UT-Austin, and Trinity U.
These weren’t my qualifiers, these are literally what they are called. Vanderbilt is better than the bottom half of the Ivy by the way, and I’ve heard that from two separate “enrollment” officers at other universities. Is Vandy not a hidden Ivy? Or Rice?
And kids coming from a Davidson or Emory or W&L are going to do just as well as their peers. All elite schools.
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once you add TWO qualifiers its just not the same thing. sorry, SMU is not Princeton.
Yep, I agree, SMU is no Princeton, but not many schools are. Is SMU a hidden Ivy, because that would be news to me? I think it’s probably only the fourth best school in TX behind Rice, UT-Austin, and Trinity U.
These weren’t my qualifiers, these are literally what they are called. Vanderbilt is better than the bottom half of the Ivy by the way, and I’ve heard that from two separate “enrollment” officers at other universities. Is Vandy not a hidden Ivy? Or Rice?
And kids coming from a Davidson or Emory or W&L are going to do just as well as their peers. All elite schools.
Nobody calls Duke (the best school in the South) or Stanford (best in the West) a "hidden Ivy". They're peers. Actual top schools – regardless of athletic conference – don't feel the need to call themselves that.
Yep, I agree, SMU is no Princeton, but not many schools are. Is SMU a hidden Ivy, because that would be news to me? I think it’s probably only the fourth best school in TX behind Rice, UT-Austin, and Trinity U.
These weren’t my qualifiers, these are literally what they are called. Vanderbilt is better than the bottom half of the Ivy by the way, and I’ve heard that from two separate “enrollment” officers at other universities. Is Vandy not a hidden Ivy? Or Rice?
And kids coming from a Davidson or Emory or W&L are going to do just as well as their peers. All elite schools.
Nobody calls Duke (the best school in the South) or Stanford (best in the West) a "hidden Ivy". They're peers. Actual top schools – regardless of athletic conference – don't feel the need to call themselves that.
But official ranking systems literally classify them as that. Again, Vanderbilt is better than the bottom half of the Ivy. Two separate college admission officials at elite colleges have said so and they’re in the business. Is Vanderbilt not a “hidden Ivy?” Is Vanderbilt not a peer? Or Rice?
Of all the Ivy League schools, I think only Dartmouth College is worth it. The school is smaller than any other Ivy League school and its actual professors -- not teaching assistants --teach the students. Dartmouth is an unusual gem -- a beautiful academic campus with educational excellence across the board and an outstanding athletic repertoire.
Still, making anything "worth it" (be it education or athletics or careers) depends on how much you yourself put into it!
No, it's not. I went to an IVY and I had a lot of debt after. I'd say if you are interested in finance, it probably helps, but other than that, the atmosphere, the elitism that is promoted is just not worth it.
How can you justify it, and how do people take that and still keep running well even after college?
These ivies are the same price as other top 20 schools...UVA, U of M, Duke, NC, ...they all come in at almost the exact same price (there's a word for that by the way) usually abot 65-68K. Boston could be expensive but many of these schools are in places that are not 80k per year living expenses, esp the dorms. If you are truly paying 100% your own way, out of state, it would have to be worth it. Pre med? Probably not, nobody really cares where you went . But maybe pre law? Business schools? IDK.
"The most expensive are not Ivies although they are all close. Pepperdine $101k. USC $99k. U Chicago $98k. Northwestern $96k.
Nope, USC and NW etc... all come in at the same tuition as the other top 20s. (its called price fixing/collusion btw). All 66-69K/yr. Different areas of the country-deep south, midwest, east coast, different schools, some public, some not...all the same price? All made similar quantum jumps in the last 10yrs. Pepperdine and UC a little more at 71K.
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You say no but then admit that tuition ranges from $66k to $71k. They are all close but not exactly the same. Their aid formulae are not all the same either. They are allowed to collude.
1. No one pays that much unless they have significant family money.
2. Like any college, it is worth it if you pursue a degree that is valued by employers and economically relevant.
3. The most important aspect of attending such schools is connections and networking.
4. Running well is a function of desire and time management both in and out of school.
There are plenty of examples of state school grads in great positions at top US companies. So as you said in point 2, is it worth it to pay more for an Ivy when you can go to a state school and get to the same place? Especially in the STEM world, people don't care where you went to learn what you know, they want the most knowledgeable person for the job who can get things done.
You say no but then admit that tuition ranges from $66k to $71k. They are all close but not exactly the same. Their aid formulae are not all the same either. They are allowed to collude.
sorry, yes they are all close. Just pointing out that all your numbers were off by about 30k. 101, 99, 98, 96K would not be close at all to the other top 20s who are at about 66. But in reality they are close all around 66-69K. Run the top 20-30 schools in USNEWS, all the same.
These is an interesting thread that is at the heart of social change in the U.S. Namely, the tech bros are increasingly asserting that elite education doesn't matter and that students should go into the trades. This is clearly self-serving and orchestrated, as all competing ideas on how society should function come from elite universities. If you undermine the authority of these institutions you have a tighter grip on the country. State schools are fantastic, and maybe one of America's great achievements. That said, in a world where the intangible notion of "prestige" and social capital is at play, all of the Ivies plus Duke, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Stanford, Rice, JHU, Chicago are all likely worth the cost. Add the very elite public schools to that list: UNC, Cal, UCLA, UVA, Michigan. Add Williams and Amherst from a liberal arts perspective. This is the elite tier from a pure prestige and social capital perspective. There are many other great schools where strong arguments can be made, but this is the list of truly elite and prestigious schools that can make a difference in a career. There are many wonderful state schools and very good private schools where you can get an education that is every bit as good, but you do not get the intangible aura as you do above. Its all about branding and cultural penetration.
How can you justify it, and how do people take that and still keep running well even after college?
If your family makes $200k or less then you may pay nothing or a small portion for tuition. Some also help with on-campus living solutions.
But, yeah, it's the cost-of-living portion that folks forget for many of these locations. It can be expensive to LIVE where the school is, even on campus.
That being said, it could be worth it depending on what you do with your degree. As some have noted, the connections you build and network you create is one of the biggest values. The education is otherwise comparable to many other quality schools.
However, I would also note a lot of state universities are also competitive for students, provide good education, allow you to cultivate regional connections and networks, and can cost a lot less.
It depends on what you need, what industry you may be looking to get into, what courses you may wish to take, and where you want to go afterward.
Ivies and Regional Ivies are good options if the economics generally work, but a loooooot of variables to go into play there.
Not arguing or defending any of these posts BUT. Specifically at Harvard, one thing to consider is the tuition is 57k a year but all cost are around 80k. This includes room, board and tuition. You live on campus all four years and eat every meal at a dining hall There are no utilities (electric, gas, water, etc) and you do not have a car (no fuel, insurance, maintenance etc). I know some of the urban ivy schools operate in a similar fashion as well.