he's right, OP is just a kid, he would keep improving as long as he trains consistently and healthily. Put it another way: why should he up his mileage drastically when he's still improving? If a 16-year-old kid ran 3:48 off only 50-55mpw, there's no need for OP to run 70-80.
And CopperRunner nailed it, if anything he should work on his speed, rather than mileage.
Ignorance is bliss. Comparing the OP to Sam Ruthe is no different than comparing a toaster to a tennis ball.
CopperRunner didn't nail anything except for his own lack of experience and knowledge. Jumps from 4:25 to 4:15 have happened thousands of times over the decades. It's not unusual. This is an age where physical maturity is the primary driving force. The OP has all the right stuff to do it, just as long as he's kept away from crappy advice like yours. You have added nothing to the conversation.
OP, just keep your eye on the tennis ball, or the toaster if you choose. You'll be just fine.
my point is it's about long-term development.
Exactly, if maturity alone would already yield great improvement, then why rush the progress?
Why? Sam is as much a teenager as OP. Sam can definitely run much more than he is already, but chooses not to because his parents know it isn't about short-term gain. Yeah, maybe OP can run as much as he can, and dips below 4:15 in a year or two, but maybe he just gets injured and would never be the same or probably both.
If OP does insist on increasing his mileage, at least make it gradual, something like the 10% is a good rule of thumb. Just because you're a survivor of quickly bumping up your mileage doesn't mean it would go well with OP. Please be responsible. I've seen way too many people take advice like yours and improve quickly, and then, uh oh, get injured and never come close to their potential again.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Ignorance is bliss. Comparing the OP to Sam Ruthe is no different than comparing a toaster to a tennis ball.
CopperRunner didn't nail anything except for his own lack of experience and knowledge. Jumps from 4:25 to 4:15 have happened thousands of times over the decades. It's not unusual. This is an age where physical maturity is the primary driving force. The OP has all the right stuff to do it, just as long as he's kept away from crappy advice like yours. You have added nothing to the conversation.
OP, just keep your eye on the tennis ball, or the toaster if you choose. You'll be just fine.
my point is it's about long-term development.
Exactly, maturity alone would already yield great improvement, then why rush the progress?
Why? Sam is as much a teenager as OP. Sam can definitely run much more than he is already, but chooses not to because his parents know it isn't about short-term gain. Yeah, maybe OP can run as much as he can, and dips below 4:15 in a year or two, but maybe he just gets injured and would never be the same or probably both.
If OP does insist on increasing his mileage, at least make it gradual, something like the 10% is a good rule of thumb. Just because you're a survivor of quickly bumping up your mileage doesn't mean it would go well with OP. Please be responsible. I've seen way too many people take advice like yours and improve quickly, and then, uh oh, get injured and never come close to their potential again.
You're completely ridiculous. Ruthe is not the same as the OP. NO ONE IS. Speaking to you is like speaking to a brick wall. You completely lack any depth of knowledge or experience. Going from 4:25 to 4:15 has happened so often that it's not disputable. OP already has the tools, he's going to be just fine.
Ignorance is bliss. Comparing the OP to Sam Ruthe is no different than comparing a toaster to a tennis ball.
CopperRunner didn't nail anything except for his own lack of experience and knowledge. Jumps from 4:25 to 4:15 have happened thousands of times over the decades. It's not unusual. This is an age where physical maturity is the primary driving force. The OP has all the right stuff to do it, just as long as he's kept away from crappy advice like yours. You have added nothing to the conversation.
OP, just keep your eye on the tennis ball, or the toaster if you choose. You'll be just fine.
my point is it's about long-term development.
Exactly, if maturity alone would already yield great improvement, then why rush the progress?
Why? Sam is as much a teenager as OP. Sam can definitely run much more than he is already, but chooses not to because his parents know it isn't about short-term gain. Yeah, maybe OP can run as much as he can, and dips below 4:15 in a year or two, but maybe he just gets injured and would never be the same or probably both.
If OP does insist on increasing his mileage, at least make it gradual, something like the 10% is a good rule of thumb. Just because you're a survivor of quickly bumping up your mileage doesn't mean it would go well with OP. Please be responsible. I've seen way too many people take advice like yours and improve quickly, and then, uh oh, get injured and never come close to their potential again.
Seriously though, what are we talking about here? OP is already doing everything right, but if he adds doubles so that he’s doing them, say, five days per week (he said he’s already doing one), then he adds another 12-15 miles to his weekly total. So we’re talking about, what, “peak” volume of maybe 62-70 mpw for a senior boy? Do you think that’s too much, because I don’t, especially for a kid who wants to get on a desirable college radar? And he won’t go straight there in one week.
Exactly, if maturity alone would already yield great improvement, then why rush the progress?
Why? Sam is as much a teenager as OP. Sam can definitely run much more than he is already, but chooses not to because his parents know it isn't about short-term gain. Yeah, maybe OP can run as much as he can, and dips below 4:15 in a year or two, but maybe he just gets injured and would never be the same or probably both.
If OP does insist on increasing his mileage, at least make it gradual, something like the 10% is a good rule of thumb. Just because you're a survivor of quickly bumping up your mileage doesn't mean it would go well with OP. Please be responsible. I've seen way too many people take advice like yours and improve quickly, and then, uh oh, get injured and never come close to their potential again.
Seriously though, what are we talking about here? OP is already doing everything right, but if he adds doubles so that he’s doing them, say, five days per week (he said he’s already doing one), then he adds another 12-15 miles to his weekly total. So we’re talking about, what, “peak” volume of maybe 62-70 mpw for a senior boy? Do you think that’s too much, because I don’t, especially for a kid who wants to get on a desirable college radar? And he won’t go straight there in one week.
You'd be surprised what just 2-3 miles easy in the morning can do. My first year of cross country in my sophomore year, I was finishing 10-12th place in dual and tri meets. I added 2-3 miles in the morning, then 2 weeks later, in a big City-wide Invitational I finished 11th (out of 77). I was shocked! The rest was history.
Just a curious kind of post. Is it possible for someone of my backround to go sub 4:15 in the mile, or am I underestimating the difficulty of this feat. Im a senior in hs and have ran consistently uninjured for the past 2 years. Last winter was hitting around 40 mpw, and during the track season around 35 mpw, ran 4:31, 2:02, and roughly 54 for the 400. Over the summer ran around 45-50 a week. This winter ive run 50-55 a week for around 3 months now, and have gotten my 1600 time down to 4:25. I reckon my 400 speed right now is roughly 53, and 800 around 2 flat. Haven't done super fast work yet so those might improve slightly come outdoor. The real question is with a few more years of training and building milage to much higher (ex. 70-80 mpw). Is it possible for me to run under 4 15. Or anyone of my nature. Or am I underestimating how big of a jump this really is?
Yes, if you bring your mileage into the 60-70 range. Read Mark Coogan's book, I think that has really great mile/5k training. Really, I think today, if you can do 1 VO2 max workout, 1 Threshold workout, and a solid longrun. It's more than possible.
Just a curious kind of post. Is it possible for someone of my backround to go sub 4:15 in the mile, or am I underestimating the difficulty of this feat. Im a senior in hs and have ran consistently uninjured for the past 2 years. Last winter was hitting around 40 mpw, and during the track season around 35 mpw, ran 4:31, 2:02, and roughly 54 for the 400. Over the summer ran around 45-50 a week. This winter ive run 50-55 a week for around 3 months now, and have gotten my 1600 time down to 4:25. I reckon my 400 speed right now is roughly 53, and 800 around 2 flat. Haven't done super fast work yet so those might improve slightly come outdoor. The real question is with a few more years of training and building milage to much higher (ex. 70-80 mpw). Is it possible for me to run under 4 15. Or anyone of my nature. Or am I underestimating how big of a jump this really is?
I had to circle back to this. Here's a guy who was right about where you were as a sophomore.** Guess who?
** He was as a sophomore = you were as a junior
Sophomore Year Meet Date Site Event Time Place 3/25/67 2nd 4:31.8 Indian Club Relays, Roseburg 4/01/67 1st 4:32.0 vs Grants Pass 4/04/67 1st 9:42.1 vs Reedsport, Reedsport 4/07/67 1st 4:32.1 DMR Spike Leslie Relays, North Bend 4/15/67 1st 2:03.5 vs Roseburg 4/15/67 1st 4:48.9 vs Roseburg 4/21/67 2nd 4:32.2 4/28/67 1st 9:46.2 5/02/67 3rd 2:09.5 vs Reedsport Coos Bay 5/05/67 1st 4:36.3 County Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 4:29.1 SCJV Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 2:06.3 SCJV Coos Bay 5/18/67 4th 9:52.3 District, Springfield
Junior year YOU 2:02 800 4:31 1600
This post was edited 15 minutes after it was posted.
You absolutely can make that jump. Just like the other posts have said.. it will take consistency and patience. But that jump is absolutely feasible.
My junior year of high school indoor season I was a 4:25 mile, 1:58 - 800, and was consistently around those times. I knew I was in for a big jump, training was clicking and I stayed consistent. Then with around 2 weeks left in my season, after weeks of consistency (only at 35mpw) I ran a 4:14.85 - 1600, which was a 10 second PR, then followed it up with a 4:18 full mile at NB. Obviously, that is an extreme situation, but it can definitely happen.
I had to circle back to this. Here's a guy who was right about where you were as a sophomore.** Guess who?
** He was as a sophomore = you were as a junior
Sophomore Year Meet Date Site Event Time Place 3/25/67 2nd 4:31.8 Indian Club Relays, Roseburg 4/01/67 1st 4:32.0 vs Grants Pass 4/04/67 1st 9:42.1 vs Reedsport, Reedsport 4/07/67 1st 4:32.1 DMR Spike Leslie Relays, North Bend 4/15/67 1st 2:03.5 vs Roseburg 4/15/67 1st 4:48.9 vs Roseburg 4/21/67 2nd 4:32.2 4/28/67 1st 9:46.2 5/02/67 3rd 2:09.5 vs Reedsport Coos Bay 5/05/67 1st 4:36.3 County Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 4:29.1 SCJV Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 2:06.3 SCJV Coos Bay 5/18/67 4th 9:52.3 District, Springfield
Junior year YOU 2:02 800 4:31 1600
It seems he had a lot more strength than me though, honestly I think the best I do in a 3200 right now is right around 9 45. Even with the 4 25. I just cant seem to really figure the event out.
You absolutely can make that jump. Just like the other posts have said.. it will take consistency and patience. But that jump is absolutely feasible.
My junior year of high school indoor season I was a 4:25 mile, 1:58 - 800, and was consistently around those times. I knew I was in for a big jump, training was clicking and I stayed consistent. Then with around 2 weeks left in my season, after weeks of consistency (only at 35mpw) I ran a 4:14.85 - 1600, which was a 10 second PR, then followed it up with a 4:18 full mile at NB. Obviously, that is an extreme situation, but it can definitely happen.
Im truthfully worried about my legspeed though, I honestly feel like im stuck around a 54/maybe 53 on a good day which I feel like might limit me. I could obviously train for a faster 400 but that would come at the expense of much needed aerobic fitness.
I had to circle back to this. Here's a guy who was right about where you were as a sophomore.** Guess who?
** He was as a sophomore = you were as a junior
Sophomore Year Meet Date Site Event Time Place 3/25/67 2nd 4:31.8 Indian Club Relays, Roseburg 4/01/67 1st 4:32.0 vs Grants Pass 4/04/67 1st 9:42.1 vs Reedsport, Reedsport 4/07/67 1st 4:32.1 DMR Spike Leslie Relays, North Bend 4/15/67 1st 2:03.5 vs Roseburg 4/15/67 1st 4:48.9 vs Roseburg 4/21/67 2nd 4:32.2 4/28/67 1st 9:46.2 5/02/67 3rd 2:09.5 vs Reedsport Coos Bay 5/05/67 1st 4:36.3 County Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 4:29.1 SCJV Coos Bay 5/11/67 1st 2:06.3 SCJV Coos Bay 5/18/67 4th 9:52.3 District, Springfield
Junior year YOU 2:02 800 4:31 1600
Guess who? The clue is Coos Bay, so he must be Steve Profontaine?
Just a curious kind of post. Is it possible for someone of my backround to go sub 4:15 in the mile, or am I underestimating the difficulty of this feat. Im a senior in hs and have ran consistently uninjured for the past 2 years. Last winter was hitting around 40 mpw, and during the track season around 35 mpw, ran 4:31, 2:02, and roughly 54 for the 400. Over the summer ran around 45-50 a week. This winter ive run 50-55 a week for around 3 months now, and have gotten my 1600 time down to 4:25. I reckon my 400 speed right now is roughly 53, and 800 around 2 flat. Haven't done super fast work yet so those might improve slightly come outdoor. The real question is with a few more years of training and building milage to much higher (ex. 70-80 mpw). Is it possible for me to run under 4 15. Or anyone of my nature. Or am I underestimating how big of a jump this really is?
4:15 is a good goal and an interesting thread. I work with a few athletes that aren't particularly fast that have run 3:53 and 3:55 for 1500 recently. Their progress has been steady with volumes around 50-60 miles per week. So my first point mileage isn't magic consistency is. The athlete that ran 3:53 ran 28:44 for 8k XC at our nats in August.
Make sure you have 1 speed session ie 2×50+2-3x80 once every two weeks, threshold session once per week or a little more+ early season 400's with 30 seconds rest, as get closer more specific sessions at 63/64 second pace.