Mary Cain claims in her new book she also was bullied by HS teammates and parents and the coach didn’t do anyting about it

Whoa, Trumpster.

I have never been a single XC, soccer or basketball team where the BEST ATHLETE was bullied. Does not make any sense.

Basically tired of reading about Mary Cain's trials and tribulations during her formative years.

Just some thoughts:

1. I don't think the reporter who did the review is just taking things "at face value". He seems to be overly familiar with Cain, maybe even a family friend.

2. I grew up in a small upscale town in Connecticut. The bullying and snobbery from parents and kids was awful. I am glad to be out of there, and would never raise my kids there. I just looked up Bronxville. It has double the median income and half the population of my hometown. Yikes. Also, Bronxville is home to a lot of NYC celebrities and elite. Mika Brezinski of MSNBC had a daughter who was teammates with Cain...

3. That being said, Mary Cain is ALSO Bronxville elite. I do plan to read the book and it'll be interesting to see how far she acknowledges her and her own family's privilege and complicity. It's easy to say you were bullied. But why? Were you yourself, humble, inclusive, and kind? Or did you think that being the fastest runner as a freshman meant you could talk down to others, exclude them or usurp senior captains? This behavior does happen, and I'm not saying she was guilty of it, but while we make assumptions about girls and girls teams, its important to remember that phenoms like Katelyn Tuohy were beloved by their teams...

4. This post is going to make me sound like a Mary basher and I am actually not. I have a lot of respect for Mary. I think she made a huge difference in the sport. I think she WAS abused by Salazar, but not everything she has described was abuse, especially the way other NOP members treated her. Basically, I think that 1. Mary was a victim of terrible treatment from Salazar and probably Bronxville coaches and 2. She was also a little entitled herself.

5. I don't think that a Bronxville coach being a "legend" means much. You can be have results on paper and not have a clue how to protect your athletes.

6. I hate to say it but Mary's parents did not act wisely. They let her leave the team in her sophomore year, and then get coached by Salazar believing it was divine intervention. For parents who don't know much about running, they placed too much importance on it and Salazar from the beginning. They could have insisted she maintain her eligibility and attend a college of her choosing. They didn't do that and let Salazar run the show.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. Avocado's Number said he didn't plan to buy the book but wanted to hear Cain's story. And he also criticized the review. He's basically the guy who wants to read a paywalled site for free. That's not how it works.

I, on the other hand, said I don't plan to buy the book and don't care about hearing her story.

Not that difficult to understand that they aren't "the same post."

I found it baffling that you "wanted to hear more" but rejected the obvious medium, and the topic of this thread, to hear more. You're just being cheap.

But your new post now has me in the surprising position of (seemingly) defending her: if you find her "thoroughly unlikable" and "trading on alleged victimhood" then you are in fact one of the misognynists of letsrun that I referenced.

She may or may not be thoroughly unlikable, but none of us on this thread know her or have interacted with her, so that's your ugly bias coloring your view.

Yep. Mean girls can be pretty sneaky, especially in front of authority figures like coaches and teachers. The coach probably didn't see any of it.

Poor Ms. Cain, always the victim. And I'm not buying the bullying due to living in a wealthy area. We moved to a northeast state and a top 10 wealthiest zip code in the nation when my son was a Junior. It was significantly wealthier than Bronxville. There were minor bullying issues at his private school (not involving my son) in a western state prior to that. When he attended public schools his last 2 years of high school, there were no significant bullying issues at all. I know people that witnessed her interactions with Salazar. She is a crazy lying loser in my estimation. I don't usually blame those that claim to be victims but she's an exception. As a physician myself, I'll say Stanford made a big mistake giving her a path to become a physician even if she's intelligent enough to become one.

I'm not going to make a diagnosis without firsthand interactions with her, but I strongly suspect she has personality disorder.

Has Mary ever said she made a mistake or even did anything wrong, made a bad choice, wasn't as accountable as maybe she should have been.. anything?

With her it's always someone else that duped her, or lied, or "abused" her. She appears to have zero accountability for anything (other than the good stuff of course.)

Underclassmen getting bullied on a sports team? This is breaking news!

As a fellow professional, I have to agree with you. Its difficult to see Mary knuckling down and completing her medical degree, never mind submitting to the rigours of a professional career and a quiet, publicity-free life. And who would risk employing her when she is so likely to complain about her employers/bosses/colleagues?

It sounds as if the sister has similar buylling complexes. This is possibly down to the parents or inherited traits, but there is a pattern of victimhood following unwise decision-making, which the parents seem to encourage.

Mary has made a lot of money indirectly out of her running career through publicity and perhaps sees herself as a bit of a star for these reasons, not for her running results. I hope she's not going to develop this theme further through her life. There comes a stage where you are an adult and have to focus on developing your own life, rather than reminiscing about every mildly unfortuate incident which you view as adversely affecting you.

This won’t get your permaban reversed, Alberto.

High school girls are constantly involved in drama with each other, so what outsider would doubt that there was drama with Mary Cain and her fellow classmates, but there was no doubt some animosity based on the fact that first, she was at the time perhaps the most talented high school girl ever in the mid distances (ultimately, 1:59/4:04/WJR champ at 3k/9:38/15:45 5000m), not doing the team workouts, and probably not your popular in-crowd type.

I can absolutely believe this. I was on a team in high school with a similar toxic culture among my teammates. It was very, very cliquish. They treated anyone on varsity with scorn who they didn't perceive has having "worked" for their slot. One teammate had been an outstanding swimmer, and his senior year decided to come out for cross country, and went straight to varsity, as he was a tremendous athlete. But the other teammates treated him like sh*t because of it. Same thing my senior year, when we had one freshman who made varsity. They always made him run in the back of the pack during training runs.

And then there was me. I was not a gifted runner by any stretch, I just bootstrapped my way, making it onto varsity as a sophomore after a lot of hard work. And I had to continue to work hard to keep my slot, because it was a deep roster. But I was the son of the coach, and they all gave it to me something fierce. It didnt' matter that I worked hard, or was a part of the team. They still made me feel as unwelcome as I could be, maybe because they viewed me as a possible snitch. I don't know.

My point being that, yeah, teams can be really awful, and no one was immune from it, no matter how gifted you were, how hard you tried, how much you contributed, if a few core people decided you weren't one of them.

I can’t decide whether she is gf or roster material

If the coach and the team was so toxic why did the parents allow Mary's sister to be on team? The sister was on the team the entire time Mary's was on the team, on the team but coached by Alberto and then on the team once she left.

I talked to another member of the press about this thread today. He wasn’t having any of the criticism of the Bronxville coach whom he said was a legend and great guy.

In some ways, there can be two truths. I was just stunned that the book reviewer accepted everything as fact. They should have said, “Cain claims she was bullied….” And probably also asked the coach for comment.

I ran for Bronxville as well in high school, though past Mary Cain and Jim Mitchell’s time. I can’t speak to her era, but the experience I had was very positive.

It’s a wealthy town, but the “snobbiness” is quite overstated. No kid is walking around with designer bags and expensive jewelry and has their own car like they are in parts of NYC and CT. Bronxville is relatively very unsnobby and instead warm and welcoming for how wealthy people there are. It is far from a cut-throat environment full of spoiled brats and helicopter parents.

As an effect, the girls on the team were NOT raised ignorant and evil. We knew to be supportive and inclusive people. We constantly lifted each other up and achieved together; never was there “bullying”.

Based on some previous posts, I suspect that Mary did this to herself. Being faster than your team is okay. Training at a different volume and pace than your team is okay. But completely rejecting the idea of being a part of that team by actively rejecting teammates’ kind invitations, desires to achieve together, etc. is not. It sounds like the girls were nice to her, as they are in Bronxville. She was cold and unresponsive. Then, when they stopped going out of their way to be nice, she took it as “bullying”. In character for someone who seems to victimize herself far too much.

It is true that Nike was not her fault and must have been very damaging. I respect her sharing her story, but her credibility and my sympathy diminish significantly when her true colors are being revealed like this.

Agree with all of this

True. This is true for all of us who were bullied. It is normal to hold the pain. Writing a book is therapy. I decided to become a parent and teach my kids how to treat others who are struggling or different like me when I was growing up. I grew slower than others. It led to intense bullying that felt overwhelming. Self esteem took a huge hit. I changed my clothing, hair style, the way I walked, and how I talked to try and fit in. Those a@@hole kids age 9 to 17 were relentless for years. I finally had relief as a hs senior. I endured being bullied for 9 years!! You never forget it. It is emotional abuse. While no physical scares, there are emotional ones that impact my ability to trust others decades later!!!

In conclusion, this is Mary's story. She felt compelled to tell it because it was central to her being and a national discussion due to downfall of Salazar.

Peace