Also, Zachariah, I appreciate the genuine question and honest curiosity/uncertainty. It's a hard/tricky topic to navigate, even for Christians! There are some things that just don't make sense and life is hard. Christians are told that life on Earth will be difficult for us, even though we are the ones that are also promised hope and joy in Christ! Personally, I can say that Christ has definitely brought hope, joy, peace, and so much more in the highs and lows of life. I'm still young (24 y/o) and have much more life and hardship to live, Lord willing, but looking back, I can be see that He has continued to lift me up... and that provides so much confidence as I continue living through uncertainty that life brings.
Zachariah and everyone else that is wrestling with the idea of God being a loving God, I want you to hear (or in this case, read) that He loves you so much. ... Adam and Eve went against God's word and brought sin/imperfection into the world. Being fully perfect, God literally couldn't be in the presence of such imperfect beings. This created a gap between us and God that, again, could only be bridged by the perfect sacrifice. God came down to Earth as Jesus, fully God and fully human, to live and die for us, then conquered death. So, to answer, we brought it upon ourselves with our sinful nature and God-revolting desires/actions.
The problem is that whatever Adam and Eve did shouldn't determine whether a child in a Romanian orphanage gets a brain tumor. Nor should that child's well-being be tied to whether someone in that orphanage is saying enough prayers (or any).
God should understand that that 6 month old child is not responsible for Adam and Eve and that 6 month olds can't pray. As such, giving her a brain tumor does nothing to help her build a relationship with God because she will die before anyone can talk to her about God or how to correctly worship God.
There is a reason philosophers and brilliant minds can't reconcile "God" with reality...
God isn’t striking a six month old with a brain tumor because He wants to pay the baby back for Adam and Eve’s sin. People grow old, get sick, and die, because creation itself was fractured when the pinnacle of that creation rebelled against the Creator.
Here is one of the more interesting, and perhaps puzzling, verses in the New Testament.
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:18-23 NIV
The problem is that whatever Adam and Eve did shouldn't determine whether a child in a Romanian orphanage gets a brain tumor. Nor should that child's well-being be tied to whether someone in that orphanage is saying enough prayers (or any).
God should understand that that 6 month old child is not responsible for Adam and Eve and that 6 month olds can't pray. As such, giving her a brain tumor does nothing to help her build a relationship with God because she will die before anyone can talk to her about God or how to correctly worship God.
There is a reason philosophers and brilliant minds can't reconcile "God" with reality...
God isn’t striking a six month old with a brain tumor because He wants to pay the baby back for Adam and Eve’s sin. People grow old, get sick, and die, because creation itself was fractured when the pinnacle of that creation rebelled against the Creator.
Here is one of the more interesting, and perhaps puzzling, verses in the New Testament.
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:18-23 NIV
Does that really make sense? Or is it more likely that this was one culture’s way of explaining their world in the absence of a more detailed understanding?
I think Tim Minchin gave the best explanation as to why only certain prayers are answered:
Thank you God for fixing the cataracts of Sam's mum I didn't realize that it was such a simple thing I feel such a dingaling, what ignorant scum Now I understand how prayer can work A particular prayer in a particular church In a particular style with a particular stuff And for particular problems that aren't particularly tough And for particular people, preferably white For particular senses, preferably sight A particular prayer in a particular spot To a particular version of a particular god And if you get that right, He just might Take a break from giving babies malaria And pop down to your local area to fix the cataracts of your mum
God isn’t striking a six month old with a brain tumor because He wants to pay the baby back for Adam and Eve’s sin. People grow old, get sick, and die, because creation itself was fractured when the pinnacle of that creation rebelled against the Creator.
Here is one of the more interesting, and perhaps puzzling, verses in the New Testament.
“I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.” Romans 8:18-23 NIV
Does that really make sense? Or is it more likely that this was one culture’s way of explaining their world in the absence of a more detailed understanding?
Yes, I do believe it makes sense. I don’t believe we’re that much smarter than ancient people.
Because He's not Santa Claus or concerned with what you want but rather what you need. Prayer is more about developing relationship with God than any specific request.
I am genuinely curious about this, please don't use this to mock religion. If you give all glory to God for all the great things in your life, that is fine by me. But what about when things aren't going right, why does the goal post move to 'God is testing me, making me stronger'? Like why can't God be wrong sometimes and called out for it? I just saw a friend on Facebook had the winning bid on a house and they thanked God for answering their prayers. What about all the people who didn't get the house and they might've prayed too? I just don't understand why God works for some but not others. And then if the house goes into foreclosure he is nowhere to be found.
god is a made up entity. a state of mind if you will, for some people. there really is no god. there is not an imaginary being that controls actions and outcomes.
I am genuinely curious about this, please don't use this to mock religion. If you give all glory to God for all the great things in your life, that is fine by me. But what about when things aren't going right, why does the goal post move to 'God is testing me, making me stronger'? Like why can't God be wrong sometimes and called out for it? I just saw a friend on Facebook had the winning bid on a house and they thanked God for answering their prayers. What about all the people who didn't get the house and they might've prayed too? I just don't understand why God works for some but not others. And then if the house goes into foreclosure he is nowhere to be found.
The answer to this will only make sense to those who have the eternal in mind, while most people who consider this question only think of the physical aspect of it.
That said, God is most concerned about the spiritual health of a person, so there are times when we ask for the things that we think are best, while God knows what is actually the best for each individual.
So, for your example, losing a house to foreclosure might be to lessen our dependence on material possessions and place it on God. It could also be for a different reason that I do not comprehend. What I do know is that I rarely see what God is doing in the present, but when I look back, it is much clearer for me.
That I'm afraid is a ridiculous answer that is used to rationalize the non answer to people praying. Children with cancer and every parent praying for healing yet all children die a painful horrible death. Don't get me started on the thousands of children dying of starvation daily with no answer to their or their parents' prayers. Don't get me started on Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mao, Stalin, Hitler who butchered millions. Then we have millions of women, who for whatever reason are unable to conceive despite their prayers, compared to millions of women who drop children seemingly as easy as picking up a towel and abuse said children when they are born. Madness.
Maybe because the real purpose of prayer is to align your will with the will of an infinitely wise God, not to submit a wish list of things you think you need
I think it's overly simplistic to think of prayer just in terms of whether or not a request is granted.
I believe God considers requests but is perhaps more concerned with connecting with people.
A mom is delighted when her son calls home from college because she longs to connect with him. Chatting with a toddler is less about the specifics of what they might ask for than it is about getting to know them and spend time with them.
If God is our Father who loves us (I know many on here don't believe this), than I think there's similar going on during prayer.
Let's consider by example what super-Christian, Paul the Apostle discovered was why God does not answer Yes to all our prayers. Although Paul had done many miracles through Jesus' power, when Paul asked 3 times for healing from a body malady ("thorn in the flesh") God said No, because "My grace is sufficient for you, Paul". That No answer sure didn't stop Paul from future prayer communication with God, because requests are only part of conversations with the divine.
When we talk about God here, we're all talking about Odin, the High One, the All Father, the Battle Stirrer, the Shield Shaker (I could go on and on), ikke sant (right)? I just want to make sure we're all on the same page (of the Hávamál, so to speak).
Zachariah - Might I suggest that Letsrun is not the forum for your question's answer. A better forum is the Alpha course. It is a free program started in Great Britain, and now in many locales in the states, where people with questions about Christianity can go to discuss their questions, similar to the one you are asking. Sessions are usually held in the evening and have a round table format.
When we talk about God here, we're all talking about Odin, the High One, the All Father, the Battle Stirrer, the Shield Shaker (I could go on and on), ikke sant (right)? I just want to make sure we're all on the same page (of the Hávamál, so to speak).