The way Gidey runs appears similar but at a much higher level. So show me the data that said she closed 10k with a sub-4 for the last 1500. That is world class even for that distance. Probably equivalent to a man running 3:35-40 in a 10k race.
Gidey's career is filled with ridiculous splits, like running successive 14:44-45 5ks in a half-marathon.
I thought we were discussing form, not times and performances.
Maybe so, but she is still clearly in the top half of elite runners when it comes to form. Some of the East Africans have absurd running form, but they still dominate.
Maybe so, but she is still clearly in the top half of elite runners when it comes to form. Some of the East Africans have absurd running form, but they still dominate.
Tight tendons/ligaments high energy return from Achilles, no loss of force from hips and knees. Visible form has nothing to do with efficiency
As a side note, there are two types of Arc Trainers - one lower body only and the other lower body + arms ("AT" models). I seem to recall reading that Valby uses the model with the arms.
I bring this up because the Arc upper body model has same side arm and leg motion, which is different from an elliptical. It's kind of weird because it goes against normal movement pattern. You can see it in video below.
I have used the lower body one many times and much prefer it to the upper body model. I enjoy classic XC skiing and didn't like how the same side arm/leg motion was jacking with my caveman brain. But I can definitely understand how Valby would like the upper body machine because you can drive your heart rate much higher, which is how she often uses the Arc. I prefer to use the Arc mainly for Z2 sessions (amazing how you can lock into an HR on the Arc).
The Cybex Arc Trainer has the same arm and leg moving at the same time. This is completely purposeful. By doing so, the twisting motion of the torso is min...
As a side note, there are two types of Arc Trainers - one lower body only and the other lower body + arms ("AT" models). I seem to recall reading that Valby uses the model with the arms.
I bring this up because the Arc upper body model has same side arm and leg motion, which is different from an elliptical. It's kind of weird because it goes against normal movement pattern. You can see it in video below.
I have used the lower body one many times and much prefer it to the upper body model. I enjoy classic XC skiing and didn't like how the same side arm/leg motion was jacking with my caveman brain. But I can definitely understand how Valby would like the upper body machine because you can drive your heart rate much higher, which is how she often uses the Arc. I prefer to use the Arc mainly for Z2 sessions (amazing how you can lock into an HR on the Arc).
In addition to the arm motion mentioned above, the other notable from Arc is that it is definitely quad heavy. You can develop glutes on it too, but very little hamstring action. If you are not careful, you can create an imbalance. Valby does seem to have a quad-heavy, front-side stride if that makes sense.
That being said, it is amazing to see what she has done with cross training. Valby may not have been the first, but she deserves full credit for popularizing the notion of swapping out miles for XT with specificity. After having used the Arc for 6 months, I do think her methods could revolutionize distance running.
As a side note, there are two types of Arc Trainers - one lower body only and the other lower body + arms ("AT" models). I seem to recall reading that Valby uses the model with the arms.
I bring this up because the Arc upper body model has same side arm and leg motion, which is different from an elliptical. It's kind of weird because it goes against normal movement pattern. You can see it in video below.
I have used the lower body one many times and much prefer it to the upper body model. I enjoy classic XC skiing and didn't like how the same side arm/leg motion was jacking with my caveman brain. But I can definitely understand how Valby would like the upper body machine because you can drive your heart rate much higher, which is how she often uses the Arc. I prefer to use the Arc mainly for Z2 sessions (amazing how you can lock into an HR on the Arc).
Is everyone aware that she also runs on the track? Do people who use arc trainer suddenly start walking differently?
Valbys form varies from some ill defined "perfect form" a little. But absolutely no more than many others including cranny who leans back at least as much as PV. Valby has beautiful stride with a little upright lean of torso. Karissa had crazier form for awhile.
Its been proven 1000s of times in world medals that there is no standard for form.
Is everyone aware that she also runs on the track? Do people who use arc trainer suddenly start walking differently?
Valbys form varies from some ill defined "perfect form" a little. But absolutely no more than many others including cranny who leans back at least as much as PV. Valby has beautiful stride with a little upright lean of torso. Karissa had crazier form for awhile.
Its been proven 1000s of times in world medals that there is no standard for form.
What are you all worked up about. The people on this thread have said that whatever she has done is working for her. They’ve just speculated that the arc training has caused her to have a different running form due to it working different muscles. You’re the one that’s putting a negative spin on it.
As a side note, there are two types of Arc Trainers - one lower body only and the other lower body + arms ("AT" models). I seem to recall reading that Valby uses the model with the arms.
I bring this up because the Arc upper body model has same side arm and leg motion, which is different from an elliptical. It's kind of weird because it goes against normal movement pattern. You can see it in video below.
I have used the lower body one many times and much prefer it to the upper body model. I enjoy classic XC skiing and didn't like how the same side arm/leg motion was jacking with my caveman brain. But I can definitely understand how Valby would like the upper body machine because you can drive your heart rate much higher, which is how she often uses the Arc. I prefer to use the Arc mainly for Z2 sessions (amazing how you can lock into an HR on the Arc).
It says that the motion of the ARC machine is like that to limit core rotation, but in running you want some core rotation. It's why the African runners frequently run with high, tight arms - they have strong core rotation. If you don't have that type of core rotation, you need the wider arm swing that has been mentioned (if I remember correctly, Desi Linden has the same kind of arm carriage).
Another poster mentioned that the ARC machine does little to engage hamstrings, and one oddity of Parker's style is that the heel return on one side is notably lower than on the other, which kicks up much nearer the butt, which could well be hamstring related.
She might do better on a Zero Runner, which is nearer to a running action and encourages a butt-kick.
If she's always run that way, perhaps the cross-trainer has exacerbated a naturally tendency.
On tactics, I think she has little choice right now. If she runs with the pack, she just has more runners with more closing speed in contention late. I don't think she has the speed and power to use options like the Brendan Foster style breakaway surge, or the long run for home where she gradually winds it up.
With a bit of luck, if she makes it to Paris, she won't have to front-run and will get in a race with a pace that's faster than she has been running and gets dragged to a really good time.
At the moment, the upside on the track would seem to be to a dominant domestic 5000m and 10000m runner, perhaps even setting a US record, but struggling at world level. One has to remember that front-runners as good as Ron Clarke, Dave Bedford and Paula Radcliffe couldn't break the fields in world level championships.
If she can handle enough mileage on the road to build the necessary bone density (which you don't get on a cross-trainer) she could eventually be a tremendous half and marathon runner.
That is good point about the limited rotation when using the arms on Arc. But I can confirm you can rotate plenty when using the lower body only.
On the plus side, Valby has mentioned how much the Arc has helped her simulate hills, which undoubtedly helped her become a such beast in XC. The incline on the Arc is fantastic - its like hiking up a 14er in heavy snow.
and yet she become one of the greatest female NCAA distance runners of all time...
I think her alternative would have been a constant cycle of injuries. So ultimately the arc trainer is the absolute best choice for her. It clearly worked so far. I just wonder if there are limits to that type of training.
I think her alternative would have been a constant cycle of injuries. So ultimately the arc trainer is the absolute best choice for her. It clearly worked so far. I just wonder if there are limits to that type of training.
That is what makes the story so fascinating. How many talented runners have had careers cut short by injury? Could they have turned their fortunes around by using a Valby approach?
The HS phenom Leachman is using similar protocol to lighten her training load after injury with much success (ran at the trials!)
Watch the entirety of the 2021 DI women's NCAA cross country championship. BYU's Whittni Orton takes home the individual championship in the 6K with a time o...
She’s going to need a race strategy that suits her inability to kick. All is not lost.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the race? The one where she led from the start and broke everyone in the field except the top 3 pro runners in the country. She ended up 4th in the Nation, got a PR, and got the Olympic standard and will likely be going to the Olympics when one of the top three opts out. It looks like she didn't find the current best strategy.
I agree that her form looks like someone who spends a lot of time on arc/eliptical trainer and her hips appear, somewhat blocked as a result. Quite possible her engine is bigger than her form can support? But considering her overall season from XC through indoors to outdoors NCAA and now Trials she's had a remarkable season. While its possible there's more there, we should at the same time give props for what a legendary season she has had and not beat her up for something that can be sorted out as she moves forward as a pro.
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