Hansons SOS Marathon Program w/ higher mileage?

The funniest thing about Letsrun and the anonymous posting is that you have no idea who you are arguing with.

Dhing has been successful at the High School level. He was a Fottlocker kid back in the day. He has run 29:01 for 10k and is currently coaching at a major D1 school. I point this out for one major reason. He is very experienced and is coming into this discussion with a wealth of knowledge. This doesn't make him right but he is certainly not a 2:40 marathoner spouting bull shit out of his ass.

he may be fast but it doesn't mean he can grasp concepts. his explaining amounts to some anecdotal tale and rehashing an article he read. what D1 school does he coach at?

For those that don't believe in "cumulative fatigue". I suggest that you run a marathon every weekend or that you run a long run the day prior to your next marathon. Is that ridiculous? Of course it is. If you don't believe that cumulative fatigue is a factor then you obiously don't believe in a taper. Afterall, if each day is a fresh new start and what you did the day or two or even a week before plays no factor then there is no reason to taper. The Hansons did not invent cumulative fatigue, they have just attempted to quantify it.

summer school wrote:

what D1 school does he coach at?

What is your background? I am sure that if you want to state your credentials that Dhing would be more than happy to comapare his background with any of the 2:30-3:00 slappy's.

what difference does it make? I wasn't trying to pick on him, I just was legitimately curious where he coached that's all!

Of course the beautiful thing about letsrun is that you can just make up credentials of people right?

oh nevermind, i think i figured it out. womens asst distance coach at JMU.

ok.

You sir are correct.

Please, make him stop giving us examples of where it's worked for elites too.....it's hurting my ears! LOL!!!

I'm only giving examples. If you can't deal with it, then stop reading the thread. I gave two examples, what the big deal? I'm sorry it's not what you like to hear.

The same time Jeff was running 16-18 miles on his long runs that segment, Clint Verran was doing 20-22. Clint finished 3rd, Jeff 4th. Difference 34 seconds.

I'm not trying to stretch the program to far. Once again, people are reading into to what I'm posting WAY to much. I've only given examples. If you go back and read again you'll see what MAIN point was.

"no sh*t. but this dhing guy likes to bring up other elites who do well on the 16M program. It sounds like he is stretching the program too far"

why would you give an example of something that has nothing to do with the thread then? how does talking about an elite prove anything? it's not a 60M week guy.

I don't have to read the article and rehash it. I practically lived it. And I certainly lived with the people who trained under the elite program. And I spent years with people that followed the training plans this thread is pertaining to.

I'm giving examples of what I seen, the people I lived and trained with and some of my own running and coaching. Yet, the people that don't like what I'm posting are: A. misreading my posts (happened several times so far) B. attacking any truths to my examples (when I have no reason to lie).

As coaches, we all have different opinions and philosophies. As athletes we not all created equally. That's the appeal of coaching to me; finding the right path for each individual.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I can't grasp concepts, probably no better than you. I would think that anyone I have worked with would disagree based of their performances.

As far as lack of scientific evidence. I'd rather keep it that way. There is only so much science can explain. I've always thought of coaching as an art; never letting a book, pace charts or VDOT write the WHOLE schedule for someone. If that was the case, then Daniels Running Formula would be everyone's coach. And lots of coaches would go searching for new jobs. And before I get attacked on this one; I do think that Daniels Running formula is a pretty good book.

"he may be fast but it doesn't mean he can grasp concepts. his explaining amounts to some anecdotal tale and rehashing an article he read. what D1 school does he coach at?"

Good question.

One of the posts said "if you're getting up to 80M/week why not ditch the hansons program and actually run some real long runs. it will do more for you anyway."

My response was simple. Hey I know of two examples where two guys that were running a LOT more than 80 miles a week. One's longest run was 90 minutes, the other was 18 miles. One set an American Record, the other a 3 minute PR and finished 4th at the US Nationals.

I guess I was trying to raise the question. Is 20 miles really necasary for someone doing 80 miles a week when I know people who have had success with a shorter long run and more mileage.

As far as the 60 mile week goes. I've gave an example of that as well. I wish I had more personal stoires (Keith and Kevin coached them, not me) to share with you about people that have followed their plans and set PR's. There are lots of them though.

"why would you give an example of something that has nothing to do with the thread then? how does talking about an elite prove anything? it's not a 60M week guy."

Close. I mainly work with the men. Sometimes women.

"oh nevermind, i think i figured it out. womens asst distance coach at JMU.

ok."

ok that's fair. the way you were writing the first two pages, it really sounded like that was what you were advocating and not raising a question. I don't have any doubts that one can succeed on such a program at any level (just like some people can run a PR in the 5000 by training like a miler, or training like a marathon runner) it is all very context dependent. but I think a lot of people, and the impression I got from you at least reading your posts, is that people believe that this is better than doing long runs no matter what. I really can't agree with that.

I agree with you. I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with that either. There are certainly people who will succeed with 16 miles, some with 18, some with 20 some with 22 and all other mileages below and above. Like I said, it's the cool thing about coaching. No one single answer.

My goal was simply to raise awareness. Yeah, get your long runs in, that's one part of it. But don't forget the other 6 days of the week (or 9 if on a 10 day schedule, 13 if on a 14 day schedule). If you can't run on two, three or four of those days b/c you're wrecked from the long run, you might want to take another look at what you're doing.

I certainly believe that long runs make you stronger. At the same time, you have to be pretty strong to begin with to go out and run 18-20 miles. For SOME, that may not be feasible in their first time training for a marathon. Especially if they have a limited background and have never run more than 40-50 miles a week in their whole life. That's who the Hanson plans are really designed for. In my mind...

Dhing

Off to practice...

Anyone that doesn't believe in cumulative fatigue has never trained. It goes to every single training principle in every sport. The Hansens didn't invent it but they exposed the fraud that is 40-50 miles a week and a 20 miler.

Dhing-

I'm gonna start a faculty position (exercise physiology) at JMU this fall. Small world.

summer school wrote:

well dude, i don't see you trying to offer up a counter argument.

That's on you, jack.

Beautiful Letsrun wrote:

For those that don't believe in "cumulative fatigue". I suggest that you run a marathon every weekend or that you run a long run the day prior to your next marathon. Is that ridiculous? Of course it is. If you don't believe that cumulative fatigue is a factor then you obiously don't believe in a taper. Afterall, if each day is a fresh new start and what you did the day or two or even a week before plays no factor then there is no reason to taper. The Hansons did not invent cumulative fatigue, they have just attempted to quantify it.

Quit using logic. There is no place for it on this board.

So.... What are your recommendations for boosting mileage using the Hanson's Program? Please!?