Amby Burfoot says: do away with the Olympic Marathon Trials

Not sure she is top 10. According to Wikipedia her marathon PR was 2:40:38 before the Trials (she ran faster 2:33 and even faster in Sydney 2:31) in Twin Cities.

Her 2:33:31 was not the fastest US time in 2000. Hickman, Junkerman, and Johnston all ran faster in Chicago in 2000 albeit not by a lot---gosh that was a really bad year for times it seems. But it is an impressive time considering the conditions.

This argument is a pretty heavy lift when our last two Olympic medallists debuted at the Trials. And NOBODY would have imagined picking Molly Seidel in a selector-based system. Overall I highly doubt that a selector-based system would be more successful, long-run, at picking US teams, Dan O'Brien notwithstanding.

And has Amby noticed how corrupt USATF is?

But actually I want to throw out another point that I didn't notice above, which is how important the track and marathon Trials are for domestic distance runners in the US. Thousands of young athletes set the Trials as a challenging but not-impossible goal. For many of them, it's their Olympics. A few of those do go on to make US teams, but even aside from them, the Trials are an essential part of the fabric of high-performance track and road-running in this country. And these are probably the only US-based events where most casual fans tune in. Eliminating the Trials would have a devastating effect.

And now you know why pro runners don't come on letsrun anymore.

If we were in an era where the top US marathoners were competitive for podiums at major marathons, then proponents of the trials would have to address the fact that the trials takes them out of a spring marathon and limits racing big 1/2s over the winter and early spring. Unfortunately, that is not a concern with the current talent pool for US marathoning.

Amby is right that the trials can produce arbitrary results and bad luck can punish runners who have proven themselves worthy of a spot. But, then I think Amby overlooks one thing the trials does that no other marathon can do. It gives US runners a chance to win a marathon. Mantz, Young, Chelanga and Rupp ran great races in Chicago. But Mantz was 3 minutes away from a podium and almost two miles behind first place (of course Kiptum is pretty much unbeatable at this point). Same story at most of the other major marathons.

But the Olympics are different in that the E. Africans are limited to 3 per team, which creates an opening for a US runner to be competitive for a medal if they have a good day. Having success at the trials helps build the confidence needed to stay with the front pack in order to get a podium. It is a very different experience when you have lost the lead pack before the half way point, have no chance for a podium and are just running for time.

So, I think there is a good argument that the OTs are a unique proving ground for US marathoners that gives them a chance to compete to win a race rather than time trial while the E. Africans take the lead pack out at a crazy pace.

And the trials have pretty much got it right in recent memory. You can quibble now and then about whether the 3 place was really better than 4th. But the trials have pretty much gone as expected. And I think the experience benefited runners like Meb, Deena, Shalane, and Desi at both the OGs and in major marathons. I am not sure they would have been as successful without that experience.

Are you kidding?

Amby won Boston in 1968 as a 21 year old college student and came within one second of Buddy Edelen’s American record later that year in Fukuoka. (I think under current WA rules, it would be considered the American record since Edelen’s record was on a point-to-point course.)

However, he is probably more well known as Bill Rodgers’ mentor and the editor of Runner’s World.

I think that as long as we don't really have Americans as top contenders in the marathon, the current setup works decently well. However, if we had anyone who could consistently challenge for the podium or the win at majors, having a separate trials would be pretty rough since it prevents Americans from running a spring marathon. I think a better system would be something along the lines of top 2 at trials plus a discretionary pick. It would preserve the Trials for the most part and would also allow for our top talent to compete in the spring marathons.

Clark ran 2:31:35 at the Olympics in 2000. Hickman 2:32:09 (#2 in 2000), Junkerman 2:32:45 (#3 in 2000), Johnston 2:33:20 #4 in 2000). Clark also had the #5 time in 2000 (2:33:31), so her second fastest in 2000 was also faster than anyone else's second fastest in 2000.

The top 3 do not necessarily go, healthy or not. Don't comment when you don't know what the issue is.

Why is this post not deleted? Delete it or give up your moderator duties.

While I agree with you that his comments were over the line, they are not even close to the most "disgusting, offensive, and inappropriate" on this board. There have been much more disgusting things written here about a specific teenage female prodigy, and not one of these cowards has put their name behind their posts. Burfoot is what, about 75? I think he can take a little criticism like a man.

I will give malmo credit - he said what he said without hiding in anonymity like so many others here.

How about I revise my comment? Amby Burfoot isn't stupid, his ideas are both stupid and indefensible. I know it's not going to be good enough for you but those are the facts. While we're at it, quit saying the selection process isn't perfect. It is both fair and perfect.

Calling the selection process "stupid" is childish. Waaaaah!. Itr's stoooopid! It's spooopid!

Quit defending him for his stature as a Runners World writer. Runners World ... really? Runners World hasn't been relevant in over 40 years. It used to be about competitive running -- long ago. If I want to know the latest fad diet for housewives, or how Oprah's training is going, I'm going to Runners World. Other than that ... never.

Hear hear. Any Brit who remembers the 1976 OG trials saw how the "first three whatever" system can backfire dreadfully. With the likes of 2:09'ers Ron Hill and Ian Thompson to choose from, three B-listers (nice guys all)made the team in a race won in 2:15, and predictably all bombed in Montreal, with none breaking 2:20. We were all crying in our beers with the selection process.

Says the guy who have been relentlessly harassing Greg 24-7. You're up to your ears in moral quicksand. Stop it.

Malmo aren’t you the same guy who vented about how so many people criticize EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY and maybe you posted an Andy Kaufman video about it? Then here you are doing the same thing that you castigate others for. I think you’re just cantankerous sometimes. But Amby Burfoot deserves better.