Diamond League: Silesia start lists are out

I think so. The GP final used to be really late on the schedule and on top of that it was in Japan that year. I think El G was just toasted from a huge season (including a 3.44 and 3.45 mile plus a few sub 3.29's) and as you alluded to they just dawdled through 1209 in 3.13 or something like that. Robert Andersen had run 3.31 that year (but had never broken 3.38 before 1997 and didn't after....hmmmm ^^) and just had the race of his life to out-lean El G. It was the first loss since the Atlanta final where he fell and as you said his last loss until Sydney. I don't think Hicham dwelled on this one too long! :D

The LRC prediction contest for Silesia as well as the AI predictions are up now here:

hpr.github.io

Fantasy Silesia '23

Open link

Yes it would be incredible with McSweyn as pacer, because pacers obviously matters for stellar times in the 1500m! And unlike so many (nerds) in this thread I consider fast times of (the most) ultimate value for my interest in athletics… (Well, I understand the appreciation for man against man competition without pacers; for me this is a sort of icing of the cake I like to watch in the Championships, but never elsewhere..! Cause -somewhat provocative- I will say this: I don’t consider championship races real races (meaning no guarantee the athlete with the best fitness will win)! Saying that it is fun to watch what happens when some of the best are being out of their comfort zone and have to invent new strategies in freak races. But in my view this is little about athletics (which I regard as being the fittest; and not being the best at “preying» on others bad tactics or misfortune…)

Some say that Jakob Ingebrigtsen should try out different strategies in races before the World championships, to get broader experience and confidence. And who knows -he may have his thoughts about strategy and tactics. But it’s hard to know what’s going on in his head (meaning hard as in everybody’s head) -maybe we should in stead speculate based on actual sayings from this Norwegian: Firstly he has said he hopes to be so good and dominant that he doesn’t have to rely that much on tactics… And furthermore that running fast is his main goal.

Jakob’s saying aligns with my view on running: What that counts is to unveil one’s potential and capabilities into fast times -it’s not good enough to beat everybody else in championships or races. (Because the competition can be -temporary- weak). Therefore the only goal is to be the GOAT -times- not to settle with a couple of Olympic 1500m golds or three…

It’s of the outmost importance to run fast times (therefore there must be pacers in Silesia and the DM final! ), because I don’t want to be involved in discussions the rest of my life about what Jakob could or couldn’t have done; I will watch it realised as hard facts…! And the same with everybody else -I don’t care if Stuart McSweyn doesn’t win a championship; I want him to realise his potential, and therefore I hardly could stop my applause when he finally broke 13; as a potential step towards becoming a (such a stellar) aerobic freak that he outruns almost everybody (and who knows thus being a champion with some luck…). And I want Cheruiyot back to run 3.25 (Don’t care if he beats “my Jakob” -if the former gets 3.25.5 and the latter 3.25.7 and that was their potential so be it..)

Thought experiment: What if Coe kept his two 1500m golds, but missed his one 3.29 run … -catastrophe if you ask me! Maybe similar catastrophic as the missing times from Ovett and Farah and so many others…!

She is scheduled for London DL 5000 against McColgan. Hope she doesn't withdraw as I am planning on going!

You are selling fishes while they are in the sea. Wait first to catch them.

I will offert you a hat from Chinese silk if Cheruiyot come back.

Hello to everybody. Is It already known the start list of the 3000m steeplechase of next Sunday Silesia Diamond League? Will you have the duel El Bakkali vs Girma or at least one of them?

I could not disagree more. Watching paced time trials is interesting sometimes, but if every race was a time trial the sport would lose a huge amount of its intrigue. How you can say that men racing mano a mano is not “real” racing is beyond me. You have it backwards if anything.

Edit: Regarding your note on Seb Coe - sure, it’s a nice bonus for his legacy that he got his 3:29, but it’s not being one of 8 men to win Olympic gold and break 3:30 that makes him a hands-down top-3 1500 runner of all time, it’s being the only man to win two Olympic golds in the event.

Have to agree with JWH - both are racing, they are just different, with different objectives to some degree. I like championship races because there is no pacing, it is about placing. But also DL races because fast times are the objective. The problem is that almost all (on down the line) HS invits/all-comers have pacers now, which means there is not enough place racing for its own sake. But standards (to better meets or just to be able to get into faster sections) are getting tougher, so the need for pacers to generate faster races has been greater. But not sure that is a good thing necessarily for younger people in particular.

Of course this is the correct view. The sport is 100% and fundamentally about man v man over a distance on a track with multiple people competing for the same goal, victory. Pacing and lights are sort of a bizarre and arbitrary tack on when you think about it. They are just an artificial construct. If you want a “pure” time trial and fitness test you could have the runners go one at a time with only their pacers, so now there are no tactics at all, no contact etc. Or maybe you should have mid race pacers join in? Why not tow Jakob all the way? Everybody went nuts about Kipchoge’s sub 2 and how that’s sort of a fake fitness stunt, correct? Or have men pace women in track races? Or, Or, Or….If you are to have “pacers” maybe they should just be team members willing to sacrifice and nobody even knows for sure who the pacers are in advance? You know, like Jager did for Fisher last year. That would be intriguing because you’d have to guess if a person was pacing or racing when they went to the front. Anyway, we have pacing and lights now and we are seeing some ridiculously good times. I think these races should still occur, but I think the sport would be better if we flipped the script and most races were pure and the fast paced time trials were less common. If Jakob is truly the goat, he’ll be able to lead from the front, run 3:27 and win, pacers be damned. Certainly Kipyegon can lead every second in a fast championship race and win, maybe not set the wr, but I’m sure she could bang out a 3:52 all by her lonely self.

Come on -you don’t disagree at all. Cause I don’t disagree with anything you are writing here… (And you should not being too hung up in the wording “not real races” when I so clearly also stress their value..)

I don’t propose pacers in the championships -not at all (champs have their own charm and excitement and merit). I’m just saying we can have two thoughts in our head at the same time… But I could of course pick only one thought (and prioritise), and stress that reaching ones potential (materialised in a peak pb) is extremely important -not letting anything come in the way for a time trail when being on one’s peak..! (And I’ve got a lot more to say about this important point, and will do this later -maybe extremely putting things on an edge to make my points…)

I very much like pacers and lights! And Jakob will much likely need pacers to beat El Guerrouj (who also got pacers)… But I also like your idea of front running stellar times (without lights, pacers and so, yes maybe in old shoes / tracks, even! -I’m not joking). -Rudisha’s run in 2012 was of course memorable and stellar (of course no pacers) as Cheruiyot’s Doha 2019, and even Jakob’s Two mile (pacers not that important).;And I like xc competitions (both hilly and flat ones), and so much more… And I too is “A Wise Old Man”, and sometimes a little stupid… What the heck -it’s exciting and joyful to speculate, and disagree, and stumbling along in this strange English language…

Yes, the conversations and speculations are what makes it fun as a fan.

Hey, when will we know the start list for the 3000m steeplechase at Silesia meeting? I'm very curious ti know if any of El Bakkali and Girma will be there!

https://silesia.diamondleague.com/programme-results/programme-2022/

Entries already out. El Bakkali but no Girma

What do you guys think about Jakob's chances to win the 5.000m in Budapest? He's only racing 1500m in Diamond's League meetings, i don't see him winning the 5.000 against runners like Chaptegei, Aregawi and Barega. I mean they are by far stronger than him on that distance.

Far stronger? Based on what?? No Jakob can hang with anybody. Maybe he’d have been vulnerable to lose in these last couple of DL barn burners, but not for sure. Unless the rest of the field plans to target the wr in Budapest, Jakob will be right there with a K to go and then bye bye to everybody….

If Chaptegei and Aregawi make a fast paced race i think Jakob won't be able to follow them. They can ran the 5.000 in 12.35-12.40 while Jakob never ever have run that fast on that distance. Never even closely.

Are you the poster previously known as est un autre, by chance?

Agreed. Jakob has dominated the best athletes in the world in his last two major 5k races and made 7:54 look easy. A few guys running 12:41 doesn’t change anything.