Colin Sahlman has a better resume than Simeon Birnbaum and better range (from 800 to XC and it's very impressive). That's no knock on Simeon, because he is an outstanding talent and an all time great.
I think people are really sleeping on Lukas Verzbicas. It seems like his one college race is held against him, but as a High Schooler he never tasted defeat in HS Cross Country. He only took one crack a breaking 4 outdoors in the mile and he checked that box in a HS only race with rainy/not ideal conditions. Then there's that whole HS 2 mile king thing.
Simeon Birnbaum, future Oregon Duck, just secured his legacy as the greatest High School distance (track) runner in history. Agree or no?
3:57.53 - 1 Mile - #4 in HS History
3:37.93 - 1500m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 3200m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 2 Mile - #2 in HS History
HOKA Festival of Miles High School Boys Championship Mile Winner (3:57.53)
Nike Outdoor Nationals 1 Mile Champion (4:02.22) - Great HS Mile Field Ever Assembled
Arcadia Invitational 3200 Champion (8:34.10)
Pump the breaks.
He's nowhere close to Jim Ryun.
Also, go ahead and add 3 to 4 seconds to his mile time and add 7 to 8 seconds to his 2 mile time if you want to compare him to anyone that ran prior to 2019. Once you do that you'll see that he's very good, but nowhere close to being the greatest.
Will you people stop with this nonsense about the superspikes being worth 4 seconds over a mile already? Or should we update Jakob Ingebrigtsen's 1500m PR to 3:31.95?
maybe it’s incorrect, but the above link says “a reasonable estimate is that improving your running economy by 1 percent will increase your racing speed by about two-thirds of a percent. So a typical 4:00.0 miler in the old spikes might expect to run 3:56.8 in the new ones—“corrected for inflation,” as Burns puts it.”
Simeon Birnbaum, future Oregon Duck, just secured his legacy as the greatest High School distance (track) runner in history. Agree or no?
3:57.53 - 1 Mile - #4 in HS History
3:37.93 - 1500m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 3200m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 2 Mile - #2 in HS History
HOKA Festival of Miles High School Boys Championship Mile Winner (3:57.53)
Nike Outdoor Nationals 1 Mile Champion (4:02.22) - Great HS Mile Field Ever Assembled
Arcadia Invitational 3200 Champion (8:34.10)
The best high school distance track runner IN HISTORY set zero national records and only won one national title? He's had an insane season but come on.
Colin Sahlman has a better resume than Simeon Birnbaum and better range (from 800 to XC and it's very impressive). That's no knock on Simeon, because he is an outstanding talent and an all time great.
I think people are really sleeping on Lukas Verzbicas. It seems like his one college race is held against him, but as a High Schooler he never tasted defeat in HS Cross Country. He only took one crack a breaking 4 outdoors in the mile and he checked that box in a HS only race with rainy/not ideal conditions. Then there's that whole HS 2 mile king thing.
Correct and next year there will be 3-5 new guys running these times who young runners without perspective will say are the best ever. That’s just how it goes, but those of us who have been fans of the sport for four decades know better.
We’re in a new era we’re in and we’ve got to adjust our optics to rank the athletes vs previous greats.
IMO to be considered “generational” you’ve got to stand apart from your peers not just by winning in a kick (that makes you the best of your group, which is exceptional btw). Alan Webb, Ritz (just so happened to be at the same time), LV, Gerry, Pre, etc. Those guys are more than just the best in their class and anybody who observed them knew it.
It’s like comparing Kobe Bryant to Russell Westbrook or Joel Embiid to Bill Russell.
Grant Fisher may not quite be on their level but he didn’t lose a HS race for over 2 full years including 2 FLs, indoor and outdoor nationals, etc. He’s the closest thing I’ve seen to generational and I’m not even quite sure he fits the bill.
Will you people stop with this nonsense about the superspikes being worth 4 seconds over a mile already? Or should we update Jakob Ingebrigtsen's 1500m PR to 3:31.95?
maybe it’s incorrect, but the above link says “a reasonable estimate is that improving your running economy by 1 percent will increase your racing speed by about two-thirds of a percent. So a typical 4:00.0 miler in the old spikes might expect to run 3:56.8 in the new ones—“corrected for inflation,” as Burns puts it.”
so not quite a second a lap, closer to .8
Adding 6.4 seconds to every elite high school 3200 does a very effective job of reducing the number of sub 9 runners from an astounding 98 (a little over 100 of you add in 2 mile conversions) to the more historically normal, if still a little high, 46.
It’s a very similar normalization of the curve if you do it for the 1600.
Although I also think training has improved, .8s per lap does seem to normalize the data for HS performances.
Birnbaum is ridiculously good. An absolute winner, which is as important as being fast. 3:37.93 AND 8:34.10y ?? Great range. His ability to close down a race... run in from 400m out cannot be overstated. He's like a German Fernandez with better wheels. Should do big things at Oregon. Curious to see if he turns out to be more of a 15/miler, or 3k/5k guy. Kind of looks like a tweener (right now).
maybe it’s incorrect, but the above link says “a reasonable estimate is that improving your running economy by 1 percent will increase your racing speed by about two-thirds of a percent. So a typical 4:00.0 miler in the old spikes might expect to run 3:56.8 in the new ones—“corrected for inflation,” as Burns puts it.”
so not quite a second a lap, closer to .8
Adding 6.4 seconds to every elite high school 3200 does a very effective job of reducing the number of sub 9 runners from an astounding 98 (a little over 100 of you add in 2 mile conversions) to the more historically normal, if still a little high, 46.
It’s a very similar normalization of the curve if you do it for the 1600.
Although I also think training has improved, .8s per lap does seem to normalize the data for HS performances.
If true, are you willing to agree that Jakob has regressed and is actually a 3:30 guy if you use the pre-super spike conversion?
Will you people stop with this nonsense about the superspikes being worth 4 seconds over a mile already? Or should we update Jakob Ingebrigtsen's 1500m PR to 3:31.95?
maybe it’s incorrect, but the above link says “a reasonable estimate is that improving your running economy by 1 percent will increase your racing speed by about two-thirds of a percent. So a typical 4:00.0 miler in the old spikes might expect to run 3:56.8 in the new ones—“corrected for inflation,” as Burns puts it.”
Grant Fisher may not quite be on their level but he didn’t lose a HS race for over 2 full years including 2 FLs, indoor and outdoor nationals, etc. He’s the closest thing I’ve seen to generational and I’m not even quite sure he fits the bill.
Grant Fisher may not quite be on their level but he didn’t lose a HS race for over 2 full years including 2 FLs, indoor and outdoor nationals, etc. He’s the closest thing I’ve seen to generational and I’m not even quite sure he fits the bill.
Adding 6.4 seconds to every elite high school 3200 does a very effective job of reducing the number of sub 9 runners from an astounding 98 (a little over 100 of you add in 2 mile conversions) to the more historically normal, if still a little high, 46.
It’s a very similar normalization of the curve if you do it for the 1600.
Although I also think training has improved, .8s per lap does seem to normalize the data for HS performances.
If true, are you willing to agree that Jakob has regressed and is actually a 3:30 guy if you use the pre-super spike conversion?
Yes, ignore the obvious improvement across all levels of running and focus on one guy at the very pinnacle of the sport. That seems like a smarter approach.
Simeon Birnbaum, future Oregon Duck, just secured his legacy as the greatest High School distance (track) runner in history. Agree or no?
3:57.53 - 1 Mile - #4 in HS History
3:37.93 - 1500m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 3200m - #2 in HS History
8:34.10 - 2 Mile - #2 in HS History
HOKA Festival of Miles High School Boys Championship Mile Winner (3:57.53)
Nike Outdoor Nationals 1 Mile Champion (4:02.22) - Great HS Mile Field Ever Assembled
Arcadia Invitational 3200 Champion (8:34.10)
Pump the breaks.
He's nowhere close to Jim Ryun.
Also, go ahead and add 3 to 4 seconds to his mile time and add 7 to 8 seconds to his 2 mile time if you want to compare him to anyone that ran prior to 2019. Once you do that you'll see that he's very good, but nowhere close to being the greatest.
Unfair logic. You cannot penalize somebody for being from a later time period. Look at all time records, Birnbaum was more diverse than Eyan ever was.
Also, go ahead and add 3 to 4 seconds to his mile time and add 7 to 8 seconds to his 2 mile time if you want to compare him to anyone that ran prior to 2019. Once you do that you'll see that he's very good, but nowhere close to being the greatest.
Unfair logic. You cannot penalize somebody for being from a later time period. Look at all time records, Birnbaum was more diverse than Eyan ever was.
Eyan was a one trick pony, it’s true.
Ryun on the other hand could probably have run 1:46 and low 8:30s on cinders. He ran 1:44.3 and 8:25.2 (STILL the American junior record) as a college freshman, shortly after his 19th birthday. That range didn’t suddenly appear once he got to college.
