Aaron Sahlman was at Arcadia Invite tonight telling everyone he was pacing the boys 3200m after he won the 800m. Aaron Sahlman was never on the start list of the 3200m. The announcer at the race announced him as pacing as he dropped out right after the 1600m mark. The NFHS rules state:
Rule 4-5-9 Art. 8 It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance from any other person. Assistance includes: a. Interference b. pacing by a teammate or persons not participating in the event f. coaching a competitor from a restricted area
Will this disqualify Aaron from the 800m? does this void his results or effect the others in the 3200m? Or maybe does the NFHS not recognize it? Can anyone explain or have insight?
Seriously? Do you not have better things to do?
Seems like A LOT of people on this forum are in this situation
Well the NFHS is really kind of just a made up thing. They make rules, most state associations elect to follow them, most regular season meets elect to follow their state associations rules. But none of this is binding or real. Arcadia can do whatever the heck they want with their own meet.
Arcadia in a NFHS sanctioned meet. You can find this information on their website. So yes they have to follow the rules. If they didn’t want to follow the NFHS rules they didn’t have to get the meet sanctioned.
I think a lot of the rules are a waste of time too, but Arcadia set the sanction for multiple reasons and they let one slip. Maybe it had good intentions, but the original poster is correct with the pacer rule. If they want to have pacers don’t get the darn NFHS sanction. It’s that simple
For anyone who doesn’t understand this section of the rules, it is the section created to stop NON-NFHS REGISTERED ATHLETES from entering the race. It’s from the Amateur status days. That’s it. Sahlman is, he had a bib number, yes the meet record is gone. Congrats to the South Dakota kid, someone will break it next year probably.
Who really cares about the NFHS records anyhow? They make no sense and never have. For example, for years the NFHS has carried Alan Webb's 1600 time at Arcadia as the national record, but Jim Ryun ran 3:58 for a mile at the Kansas State HS championship in 1965. That's faster, and it's not a conversion -- if he ran faster for a distance that is longer than 1600 meters (which a mile is), then he clearly ran at least that fast for 1600 meters, so it should have been listed as the record (and he was his own pacer). And of course Gary martin's mile time from last year, also run in a HS-only race, is also faster. And the NFHS list of top 3200 times also excludes multiple 2-mile times set in HS-only races (by Steve Prefontaine and Craig Virgin, among others) that meet the same criteria. How does the NFHS decide which races count and which do not?
Yeah, NFHS records have always been irrelevant.
This is probably a troll thread all things considered. I did kind of like someone arguing that this didn't even violate NFHS rules because it says "pacing by a teammate" and no one else from Newbury Park was in the race -- and that, since Aaron Sahlman was clearly in the race, "persons not participating" didn't apply either.
Who really cares about the NFHS records anyhow? They make no sense and never have. For example, for years the NFHS has carried Alan Webb's 1600 time at Arcadia as the national record, but Jim Ryun ran 3:58 for a mile at the Kansas State HS championship in 1965. That's faster, and it's not a conversion -- if he ran faster for a distance that is longer than 1600 meters (which a mile is), then he clearly ran at least that fast for 1600 meters, so it should have been listed as the record (and he was his own pacer). And of course Gary martin's mile time from last year, also run in a HS-only race, is also faster. And the NFHS list of top 3200 times also excludes multiple 2-mile times set in HS-only races (by Steve Prefontaine and Craig Virgin, among others) that meet the same criteria. How does the NFHS decide which races count and which do not?
Yeah, NFHS records have always been irrelevant.
This is probably a troll thread all things considered. I did kind of like someone arguing that this didn't even violate NFHS rules because it says "pacing by a teammate" and no one else from Newbury Park was in the race -- and that, since Aaron Sahlman was clearly in the race, "persons not participating" didn't apply either.
Interestingly, the 3200m results are not on athletic.net. is this related?
You have had a dozen people explain it to you but you still don't seem to get it. Sahlman was an entrant. He can DNS or DNF if he chooses to. He can jog the entire race. He can win the race. He chose to DNF. A pacer is not allowed in the race. That means the race director couldn't have a college guy or a pro or any non high school runners in to pace. But every entrant could sprint into the lead and hold it as long as possible.
Aaron Sahlman was at Arcadia Invite tonight telling everyone he was pacing the boys 3200m after he won the 800m. Aaron Sahlman was never on the start list of the 3200m. The announcer at the race announced him as pacing as he dropped out right after the 1600m mark. The NFHS rules state:
Rule 4-5-9 Art. 8 It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance from any other person. Assistance includes: a. Interference b. pacing by a teammate or persons not participating in the event f. coaching a competitor from a restricted area
Will this disqualify Aaron from the 800m? does this void his results or effect the others in the 3200m? Or maybe does the NFHS not recognize it? Can anyone explain or have insight?
Why do weak distance runners need someone to pace them to make them run fast.
Field event athletes and sprinters don't need someone to take the lead for them to perform their best. Distance sucks.
Well the NFHS is really kind of just a made up thing. They make rules, most state associations elect to follow them, most regular season meets elect to follow their state associations rules. But none of this is binding or real. Arcadia can do whatever the heck they want with their own meet.
Arcadia in a NFHS sanctioned meet. You can find this information on their website. So yes they have to follow the rules.
Since they did follow the rules a hot cup of STFU is coming your way
For anyone who doesn’t understand this section of the rules, it is the section created to stop NON-NFHS REGISTERED ATHLETES from entering the race. It’s from the Amateur status days. That’s it. Sahlman is, he had a bib number, yes the meet record is gone. Congrats to the South Dakota kid, someone will break it next year probably.
I have no idea if this is the correct answer from the perspective of whomever would enforce the rules, but I definitely want it to be the answer.
He was an entrant. I think the race director may have violated the spirit of the rule, but I think they are all fine wrt being within the letter of the rules. I am confident that the winning time will be recognized as an NFHS record.
Listen, of course Aaron Sahlman was pacing. He said he was pacing, he was checking his watch the entire time, the announcer said he was pacing. He was pacing.
Now, is against the rule? In a court of law, of course it's a losing battle as there is too much ambiguity around what does participating mean, etc. It isn't going to be enforced, but the spirit of the rule is that an advantage isn't gained and pacing provides an advantage.
A bit of a sketchy decision to allow it and set it up, but I'm sure the record will stand. I just hope this doesn't open a can of worms where high school races become even more of time trials and away from racing other kids like it is supposed to be.
The language you are citing does not exist in the 2023 NFHS Rule Book. Article 5 "It is an unfair act when a competitor receives any assistance." There is no "from another person" as you have indicated. There is no reference in NFHS Rules to a Rabbiting (Pacing) by a competitor entered in the race, even through he/she was overtly doing so and did not make an attempt to complete the race. For the most part, high school only races have been not subject to the same pressures that we see commonly in Elite competition and this situation is unique.
Who was he pacing? Spectators can't pace a person. A teammate can't pace a teammate. But a competitor in a race can drop out or run slower than normal. It is his choice. The spirit of the rule is so that one runner in a race doesn't gain an unfair advantage.
Who was he pacing? Spectators can't pace a person. A teammate can't pace a teammate. But a competitor in a race can drop out or run slower than normal. It is his choice. The spirit of the rule is so that one runner in a race doesn't gain an unfair advantage.
Are you trying to be difficult or just overly nuanced?
He was pacing several of the boys. It doesn't have to be an advantage for a singular person and it doesn't have to be an advantage over only those in that race. It is an advantage to have a pacer or people wouldn't do it. It's not about a competitor is making a choice.
Are you debating if Aaron Sahlman was pacing? Are you debating that having him pace is an advantage for those in that race?
You don't seem to understand what an advantage is. If you and I play a game of horse and we use a women's basketball, there is no advantage because we are both using it.