I am still not convinced he wasn't a doper. I know it's unfair if he wasn't one but Morocco and Algeria have such a bad record of doping. I have the same suspicion for Boulmerka and Morceli.
You should see the US runners. They dope and still lose!
So few choose to just go out at the top, and the connection to EPO testing at that time cannot be ignored. What other explanations have been given for El G's retirement?
R. Ramzi an LRC celebrity was double champion in 2005. Did he been caught for EPO?
Link 2 (Saïd Aouïta advises Hicham El-Guerrouj to stop) (Aug 11, 2005)
Reading Link 2, it appears almost that Aouita is publicly advising El G that he should retire before he gets caught. Also it's near comical reading an article almost entirely consisting of Aouita calling out doping in the sport, and then proclaiming Ramzi as the new king of middle-distance.
If there was still no testing for EPO, the recent WC results would be something like this:
1 : Katir 3:23.4
2 : Manangoi 3:23.7
3 : unknown Moroccan 3:24.0
4 : Garcia 3:25.0
4 : George Manangoi 3:25.3
5 : Tim 3:26
6 : Lemi 3:26.8
7. Fontes 3:27.5
8. Joshua Thompson 3:28.2
9. Algerian 3:28.6
Jake Wightman did not qualify from semi. Josh Kerr played professional rugby from age 19. McSweyn played professional cricket from age 18. Jakob won several ski xcountry golds at the winter Olympics.
If there was still no testing for EPO, the recent WC results would be something like this:
1 : Katir 3:23.4
2 : Manangoi 3:23.7
3 : unknown Moroccan 3:24.0
4 : Garcia 3:25.0
4 : George Manangoi 3:25.3
5 : Tim 3:26
6 : Lemi 3:26.8
7. Fontes 3:27.5
8. Joshua Thompson 3:28.2
9. Algerian 3:28.6
Jake Wightman did not qualify from semi. Josh Kerr played professional rugby from age 19. McSweyn played professional cricket from age 18. Jakob won several ski xcountry golds at the winter Olympics.
In 2005, El Guerouj was quadruple World Champion 1500m + 1 vice-champion (1995) Why do you ask him more?
He was supposedly earning at least 4 million dollars a year. Why would you not go on another year or two to milk your even greater fame and glory?
After Athens, there was nothing left for El G to accomplish. My guess is he no longer had the motivation to keep training at the level necessary to be the best in the world. He was not accustomed to losing, so it doesn’t surprise me that he would choose to retire at the top (having done literally everything there is to do in athletics) rather than stick around for a bit more money at the cost of his record/legacy.
I think he was doping but doubt it played into his decision to retire. Zero chance a guy like that ever gets banned as it would be horrible for the sport.
He was supposedly earning at least 4 million dollars a year. Why would you not go on another year or two to milk your even greater fame and glory?
After Athens, there was nothing left for El G to accomplish. My guess is he no longer had the motivation to keep training at the level necessary to be the best in the world. He was not accustomed to losing, so it doesn’t surprise me that he would choose to retire at the top (having done literally everything there is to do in athletics) rather than stick around for a bit more money at the cost of his record/legacy.
I think he was doping but doubt it played into his decision to retire. Zero chance a guy like that ever gets banned as it would be horrible for the sport.
I believe it played a big decision for him to retire. The test for rHuEPO was refined & significantly improved by 2005. And WADA started more OOC testing specifically looking for EPO use.
Don't you find it interesting that El G's long-time training partner & pace setter, Adil Kaouch, was busted for EPO in 2007?
Then came one of the biggest busts in IAAF history when Ramzi was busted IC at the Beijing Olympics for the 3rd generation EPO - CERA, where he made a mockery of the 1500 final. Ramzi "thought" CERA was undetectable - and he was right until the manufacturer of CERA worked with WADA in developing a test for it about year later retesting the samples from the Olympics & WCs.
The International Association of Athletics Federations took Morocco off their doping watch list two years ago. But fresh doping revelations by ARD show a distinct lack of real change.
Please find attached an extremely crappy graph I made showing all who have run sub-3:30 more than once. (There are 18 others who ran under 3:30 a single time, which I excluded only because it would have stretched the graph out way too far and cluttered up the names. Sidenote: Daniel Kipchirchir Komen is different than Daniel Komen, who only ran sub-3:30 once!)
It's fun to see a superstar wipe the floor with everyone like Jakob has been doing, but here is a great visual reminder of how far he (or anyone) has to go to surpass El Guerrouj. Jakob will need at least another 5 years at the top with multiple Olympic and WC wins, not to mention WRs, before the conversation will be worth having. As of now it's hard to say he has even completely surpassed Cheruiyot!
Given that JI lost the most important 1500 of 2022, I wouldn't say he is wiping the floor with everyone, but nice graph and good point about needing another 5 years and not yet surpassing Cheruiyot. Because Jakob has achieved so much success at a young age, many posters seem to project the next 5 years and act as if they have already happened when assessing how good he is. He will need to continue doing what he is doing for a little longer.
But how many did El G have when he was Jakob's age?
The above is a good point. El G only broke 3:30 for the first time when he was 21 and the last time when he was 29. This averages as approximately 3.5 sub 3:30s per year over 8 years. Jakob is about to turn 22 but has already broken 3:30 6 times so to equal El G he only needs to run another 23. If he has a longevity equivalent to El G he only has to average just over 3 sub 3:30s per year until he turns 29. A lot will depend on his motivation to stick with the distance and remaining injury free.
For further discussion, without comment, here is a graph showing the number of ALL sub-3:30s run by year. Make of it what you will!
Thanks for the time and effort put into both graphs.
We can clearly see that the acceptable legal limit for sub-3:30s in a drug-free sport is 4, as seen in 1985, back when things were good.
Except…Aouita must’ve been doping, so I guess the legal limit is 2.
But wait. Ingebrigtsen broke 3:30 3 times this year, and he obviously can’t be doping because…
🤯
I’m so confused.
For somebody who is supposed to be such an expert and historian of the sport, it's strange that the huge improvements in times caused by super shoes and kangeroo tracks has managed to pass you by.
Classic letsrun post where the non-US, non-white is automatically convicted, for the crimes of being better than the home-bred and hurting feelings.
Yeah, when the consensus is against you, always be sure to pull the race card out of your behind.
Lance Armstrong never failed a test btw.
Scarecely credible times and consistency of performances at a time when there was no testing for the first endurance drug, training partners busted, his country with subsequently one of the worst EPO bust rates after EPO testing became a thing (the year he retired), and now Moroccans can't even make finals let alone set WRs that last decades.
So all the evidence points to him being a doper, but we can't suggest it because he is non-white (even though he is...white)? If the Chinese ever start suspiciously dominating distance running and leaving the Africans in the dust (as Ma's army did for a brief while), you can be sure the same people playing the race card would be screaming for the Chinese to be banned.
Classic letsrun post where the non-US, non-white is automatically convicted, for the crimes of being better than the home-bred and hurting feelings.
Yeah, when the consensus is against you, always be sure to pull the race card out of your behind.
Lance Armstrong never failed a test btw.
Scarecely credible times and consistency of performances at a time when there was no testing for the first endurance drug, training partners busted, his country with subsequently one of the worst EPO bust rates after EPO testing became a thing (the year he retired), and now Moroccans can't even make finals let alone set WRs that last decades.
So all the evidence points to him being a doper, but we can't suggest it because he is non-white (even though he is...white)? If the Chinese ever start suspiciously dominating distance running and leaving the Africans in the dust (as Ma's army did for a brief while), you can be sure the same people playing the race card would be screaming for the Chinese to be banned.
Just because Morocco doesn't currently have huge middle distance domination doesn't mean anything. If you look back at athletic history numerous countries have dominated certain distances during certain periods. Also there weren't exactly strings of other Moroccans running 3:26 lol. I'm not saying El G didn't dope but that type of argument is totally flawed.
