None of the top 5 NBA players are American!

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3 years ago 05/14/2022 11:39am EDT

re: Real Obvi

Real Obvi wrote:
Deep Thinker wrote:
Any other year, Durant might be in the top four, but not this year. One of the criterion I mentioned was team results. The Celtics handled him quite easily. The other four have excelled in the playoffs and in the season. (Jokic didn't win in the playoffs but his performances were great.)
I will stick with my top 4 easily. The 5th spot is debatable.
Your top 4 list is a bad joke.

Embiig, Giannis, Jokic and Doncic are winners. They have carried their teams. Just look at the results and the STATS.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 11:39am EDT

re: Deep Thinker

Deep Thinker wrote:
coach wrote:
You don't think KD is in the conversation of top 4? We'll see about KL when and if he gets healthy again.
Any other year, Durant might be in the top four, but not this year. One of the criterion I mentioned was team results. The Celtics handled him quite easily. The other four have excelled in the playoffs and in the season. (Jokic didn't win in the playoffs but his performances were great.)
I will stick with my top 4 easily. The 5th spot is debatable.

I guess every year you'll be amending your top 4 or 5. This is the first year Luka has won a series. Are you going to remove Jokic and add Tatum?

3 years ago 05/14/2022 11:52am EDT

re: Real Obvi

Real Obvi wrote:
^ How to say you have zero understanding of basketball without using those words.
Good job!
Giannis and Embiid deserve to be in the top 5.
Jokic is a regular season hero who doesn't completely fold in the playoffs but does not exactly overwhelm. Sorry, but he doesn't fit in the top 5. And just in case you are not aware, the best players all consider the playoffs to be the real season and treat the regular season as an extended warmup.
And Luka? OK, maybe you just added him for comedy relief because that's just funny. Luka is a very good player who is a ball hog/stat hog. Very much along the lines of Westbrook of five years ago (remember when Westbrook won the MVP award? LOL) or Harden. He puts up some huge numbers and does some spectacular things so people write about him a lot and make a lot of videos about him. And you've bought into the narrative. Luka's career playoff WS/48 is .132. Hilarious that you think he is a top 5 player.
Guess who has the best playoff WS/48 over the last six years? That would be the same player who has the 3rd highest career playoff WS/48 in the modern history of the NBA, right behind Michael Jordan and Lebron James. Might surprise you since you obviously have no understanding of basketball. Here's a hint for you - it's the same player who Giannis talked about with reverence and awe after getting kicked out of the playoffs by him and Luka spoke again in awe and reverence after suffering the same fate the last two years.
I would say you might want to learn something about basketball before posting but I know you never will. You are one of the masses who gets his "understanding" of the game by soaking up whatever narrative the media is serving at the time.
Cheers.

You make such a point of Kawhi Leonard’s career playoff WS/48, while dissing Jokic who is 6th all time in that stat (5th if you omit George Mikan, as you have).

1. Michael Jordan

2. George Mikan

3. Lebron James

4. Kawhi Leonard

5. Magic Johnson

6. Nikola Jokic

7. Jerry West

8. Wilt Chamberlain

9. David Robinson

10. Giannis Antetokounmpo

Seems like Jokic fares just fine in this regard. Besides, WS/48 isn’t a perfect stat, and is somewhat contingent on playing for a team that can win. In 2019 Jokic led the league in playoff WS/48 at .263. In 2022 he’s so far led the league in playoff PER with 33.1, which is ridiculous.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 12:33pm EDT

re: The last taco

The last taco wrote:
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of number of international players in the top 10 or 20 every 5 years over the last 40 years.
I'm 44 and there's always been a few international players but I feel like in the 80's and 90's it was nearly all black Americans. It was rare to see two white guys on the court at the same time. lol

Two things happened in late 1980s / early 1990s.

The Cold War ended.

FIBA opened up their tournaments to pros (over the objection from USA Basketball).

3 years ago 05/14/2022 12:46pm EDT

re: John Wesley Harding

John Wesley Harding wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
^ How to say you have zero understanding of basketball without using those words.
Good job!
Giannis and Embiid deserve to be in the top 5.
Jokic is a regular season hero who doesn't completely fold in the playoffs but does not exactly overwhelm. Sorry, but he doesn't fit in the top 5. And just in case you are not aware, the best players all consider the playoffs to be the real season and treat the regular season as an extended warmup.
And Luka? OK, maybe you just added him for comedy relief because that's just funny. Luka is a very good player who is a ball hog/stat hog. Very much along the lines of Westbrook of five years ago (remember when Westbrook won the MVP award? LOL) or Harden. He puts up some huge numbers and does some spectacular things so people write about him a lot and make a lot of videos about him. And you've bought into the narrative. Luka's career playoff WS/48 is .132. Hilarious that you think he is a top 5 player.
Guess who has the best playoff WS/48 over the last six years? That would be the same player who has the 3rd highest career playoff WS/48 in the modern history of the NBA, right behind Michael Jordan and Lebron James. Might surprise you since you obviously have no understanding of basketball. Here's a hint for you - it's the same player who Giannis talked about with reverence and awe after getting kicked out of the playoffs by him and Luka spoke again in awe and reverence after suffering the same fate the last two years.
I would say you might want to learn something about basketball before posting but I know you never will. You are one of the masses who gets his "understanding" of the game by soaking up whatever narrative the media is serving at the time.
Cheers.
You make such a point of Kawhi Leonard’s career playoff WS/48, while dissing Jokic who is 6th all time in that stat (5th if you omit George Mikan, as you have).
1. Michael Jordan
2. George Mikan
3. Lebron James
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Magic Johnson
6. Nikola Jokic
7. Jerry West
8. Wilt Chamberlain
9. David Robinson
10. Giannis Antetokounmpo
Seems like Jokic fares just fine in this regard. Besides, WS/48 isn’t a perfect stat, and is somewhat contingent on playing for a team that can win. In 2019 Jokic led the league in playoff WS/48 at .263. In 2022 he’s so far led the league in playoff PER with 33.1, which is ridiculous.

Not a bad post.

And I'm not dissing Jokic. Just pointing out how his playoff performance lags his regular season performance by a significant margin for two years running.

I also had Jokic in the 6 - 8 best players in the NBA in my original post. So, no, not really dissing Jokic. He is an outstanding player. Just outside the top 5 in the NBA.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 12:48pm EDT

re: Deep Thinker

Deep Thinker wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
Your top 4 list is a bad joke.
Embiig, Giannis, Jokic and Doncic are winners. They have carried their teams. Just look at the results and the STATS.

They are all excellent players. It's just that Jokic does not belong in the top 5 (top 8 is more like it). And Doncic does not even belong in the discussion (still, an excellent player).

3 years ago 05/14/2022 2:03pm EDT

re: Real Obvi

Real Obvi wrote:
Deep Thinker wrote:
Do you watch ad follow basketball?
The top 4 without question are Giannis, Luca, Jokic and Embiid. They are heads and shoulders over the rest. Their stats and their results and their effect on teammates are excellent.
The only argument is who would be in fourth place. The is going to be very subjective. LeBron's team didn't even make the playin tournament (just about every team makes that) Sure LeBron scored a ton but his effect on his teammates and particularly the organization is a huge negative. He is out.
Cases could be made for Booker, Curry, Butler, Rudy Gobert, Domantas Sabonis, Durant, Bogdanovic, Vucevic.
Jokic is a regular season hero who doesn't completely fold in the playoffs but does not exactly overwhelm.

So let's look at what happened when Jokic faced Kawhi in the playoffs in 2020. Clippers with home court advantage and Nuggets came back from 3-1 deficit.

Stats for the series:
KL – 24.3 pts. 8.6 rebounds, 5.9 assists.
Jokic – 24.4 pts. 13.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists.

What about for the deciding game 7 on the Clippers home court, which Denver won by 15?
KL – 14 pts, 6 rebounds, 6 assists
Jokic – 16 pts, 22 rebounds, 13 assists

Who was clutch and who didn’t show up?
The fact is that Jokic plays his heart out in the playoffs. Against the Warriors this year he averaged 34.3 points and 13.2 rebounds while trying to carry a team with no all-stars and, really, a bunch of guys that probably wouldn’t even start for any of the other playoff teams.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 2:12pm EDT

re: JLT

JLT wrote:
Real Obvi wrote:
Jokic is a regular season hero who doesn't completely fold in the playoffs but does not exactly overwhelm.
So let's look at what happened when Jokic faced Kawhi in the playoffs in 2020. Clippers with home court advantage and Nuggets came back from 3-1 deficit.
Stats for the series:
KL – 24.3 pts. 8.6 rebounds, 5.9 assists.
Jokic – 24.4 pts. 13.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists.
What about for the deciding game 7 on the Clippers home court, which Denver won by 15?
KL – 14 pts, 6 rebounds, 6 assists
Jokic – 16 pts, 22 rebounds, 13 assists
Who was clutch and who didn’t show up?
The fact is that Jokic plays his heart out in the playoffs. Against the Warriors this year he averaged 34.3 points and 13.2 rebounds while trying to carry a team with no all-stars and, really, a bunch of guys that probably wouldn’t even start for any of the other playoff teams.

No disrespect to Jokic but KL doesnt control the ball, he was also coached by Doc Rivers who has a penchant for losing game 7s.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 3:47pm EDT

re: coach

It's hilarious to me how the back to back MVP isn't in some peoples top 5 players list.

Am I taking crazy pills!?

It has to be the fact that he's on a small market team and most of you guys watch maybe 3 nuggets games a year?

The dude is on course to be a legend. Come on. Just because he's not all over sportscenter with crazy dunk highlights doesn't mean he isn't insanely effective.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 3:53pm EDT

re: coach

coach wrote:
Deep Thinker wrote:
Any other year, Durant might be in the top four, but not this year. One of the criterion I mentioned was team results. The Celtics handled him quite easily. The other four have excelled in the playoffs and in the season. (Jokic didn't win in the playoffs but his performances were great.)
I will stick with my top 4 easily. The 5th spot is debatable.
I guess every year you'll be amending your top 4 or 5. This is the first year Luka has won a series. Are you going to remove Jokic and add Tatum?

I would expect the list to change every year depending on that athlete's performance that year.

I also said regular season and the playoffs. You know Basketball and the stats better than I, I am sure you would agree with my first 4 picks.

Tatum would be high on the list this year (but not top 4).

3 years ago 05/14/2022 3:56pm EDT

re: coach

coach wrote:
JLT wrote:
So let's look at what happened when Jokic faced Kawhi in the playoffs in 2020. Clippers with home court advantage and Nuggets came back from 3-1 deficit.
Stats for the series:
KL – 24.3 pts. 8.6 rebounds, 5.9 assists.
Jokic – 24.4 pts. 13.4 rebounds, 6.6 assists.
What about for the deciding game 7 on the Clippers home court, which Denver won by 15?
KL – 14 pts, 6 rebounds, 6 assists
Jokic – 16 pts, 22 rebounds, 13 assists
Who was clutch and who didn’t show up?
The fact is that Jokic plays his heart out in the playoffs. Against the Warriors this year he averaged 34.3 points and 13.2 rebounds while trying to carry a team with no all-stars and, really, a bunch of guys that probably wouldn’t even start for any of the other playoff teams.
No disrespect to Jokic but KL doesnt control the ball, he was also coached by Doc Rivers who has a penchant for losing game 7s.

So it's his coaches fault he played poorly in game 7? Maybe he doesn't control the ball but that doesn't stop him from shooting and rebounding. I don't think anyone on the Clippers was refusing to pass KL the ball.

But my point wasn't necessarily a knock on KL but a refutation to the poster who claimed Jokic only played well in the regular season. That is just false.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 3:57pm EDT

re: Deep Thinker

Deep Thinker wrote:
coach wrote:
I guess every year you'll be amending your top 4 or 5. This is the first year Luka has won a series. Are you going to remove Jokic and add Tatum?
I would expect the list to change every year depending on that athlete's performance that year.
I also said regular season and the playoffs. You know Basketball and the stats better than I, I am sure you would agree with my first 4 picks.
Tatum would be high on the list this year (but not top 4).

I appreciate you qualifying your post with stating that your list is based on this year's stats.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 3:58pm EDT

re: dirkkkkkky

dirkkkkkky wrote:
It's hilarious to me how the back to back MVP isn't in some peoples top 5 players list.
Am I taking crazy pills!?
It has to be the fact that he's on a small market team and most of you guys watch maybe 3 nuggets games a year?
The dude is on course to be a legend. Come on. Just because he's not all over sportscenter with crazy dunk highlights doesn't mean he isn't insanely effective.

Not as crazy as you think, Steve Nash won back to back MVPs in years he was not even close to being the best player in the game.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 4:06pm EDT

re: coach

coach wrote:
dirkkkkkky wrote:
It's hilarious to me how the back to back MVP isn't in some peoples top 5 players list.
Am I taking crazy pills!?
It has to be the fact that he's on a small market team and most of you guys watch maybe 3 nuggets games a year?
The dude is on course to be a legend. Come on. Just because he's not all over sportscenter with crazy dunk highlights doesn't mean he isn't insanely effective.
Not as crazy as you think, Steve Nash won back to back MVPs in years he was not even close to being the best player in the game.

The award is for most valuable player not best player. Of all of the mpv candidates Jokic had the worst supporting cast.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 4:13pm EDT

re: JLT

I was responding to the post stating that the MVP needs to be among the best players. Mash was a great player and in those years among the most valuable but would not be considered better than Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Iverson, Garnett, Lebron.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 4:26pm EDT

re: coach

Jokic was #1 in player efficiency rating, Win Share, Win Share / 48min, Box Plus/Minus and Value Over Replacement.

Giannis was #2 in all five categories, and Embiid was #3 in four of the five. (He was #5 in WS/48min.)

I wonder how much more Jokic has to do to be among the top five players in the league.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 4:47pm EDT

re: Just Another Hobby Jogger

If Murray and MPJ are back healthy next year watch out. Denver will be legit contender.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 5:08pm EDT

re: Just Another Hobby Jogger

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
Jokic was #1 in player efficiency rating, Win Share, Win Share / 48min, Box Plus/Minus and Value Over Replacement.
Giannis was #2 in all five categories, and Embiid was #3 in four of the five. (He was #5 in WS/48min.)
I wonder how much more Jokic has to do to be among the top five players in the league.

Play defense. He might be 4th or 5th.

3 years ago 05/14/2022 5:30pm EDT

re: coach

coach wrote:
Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:
Jokic was #1 in player efficiency rating, Win Share, Win Share / 48min, Box Plus/Minus and Value Over Replacement.
Giannis was #2 in all five categories, and Embiid was #3 in four of the five. (He was #5 in WS/48min.)
I wonder how much more Jokic has to do to be among the top five players in the league.
Play defense. He might be 4th or 5th.

So I guess Curry has never been a top 5 player in the NBA, or Harden. Even Durant, a good defensive player has never made an all-defensive team. Is that your only criteria?

3 years ago 05/14/2022 5:32pm EDT

re: barney23

barney23 wrote:
Kobbs Hessler wrote:
So a bit like all the non-Americans who win our marathons that we organize and pay for.
You realise no one is stopping you from making your marathons all-American?

They could also try just running faster.

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