Either you are very old, predating Title IX, or you're not being honest. Which school?
Either you are very old, predating Title IX, or you're not being honest. Which school?
Mr. Slowpoke wrote:
Have a similar story for the same sport. Had a friend "play" at a d3 school where he was a liked and respected teammate, Dean's List student, and most importantly from all accounts a strong player and yet rode pine.
This friend attended grad school at a d1 and not only made the team but was a strong contributor, making the starting rotation on a team that made regionals, and later making an all-star team in a prestigious summer league. So guy who couldn't crack the starting 9 at a d3 goes on and is an all-star at a top d1.
Coaches have a lot on their plate and it's the unfortunate reality of life that all the decisions they make don't always make objective sense. Sometimes they will just burn eligibility of guys that deserve playing time, and sometimes they will keep trotting out struggling players.
Do not listen to anyone saying to talk to the AD, he/she will not care at all. Also, do not hold out hope that even if the coach does lay out standards that you're able to meet, that you will eventually be able to race representing the school. If it sounds stupid that's because it is, but good reasons, bad reasons, or no reasons at all, the decision is the coach's to make. Finally, never get a parent involved in something like this. Doing so will only serve to hurt you.
This is actually pretty common in baseball. I eventually went out for track after encountering the same situation in high school. What I was immediately attracted to about running is it is very hard for coaches to ignore superior race times.
To the OP, what the coach has against you is you are not currently fast enough. Find out if they have standards, then run faster. If you can’t then you just aren’t good enough to make the team. Even d3 won’t take everyone, especially on the mens side.
Even my coach has read this thread. He said most coaches read Letsrun from time to time and none of them want to be mentioned on Letsrun. I give zero chance this kids ends up at CSP or Olaf. Best bet is to train on your own for a year, get faster, and then apologize for whining on a national running message board. Maybe you'll be able to join the team then.
To the people saying the coach doesn't or won't care unless the athlete is a threat to score at conference, what are you talking about? We still don't know if the kid is doing CSP or a MIAC school, but if we assume MIAC it took a 4:02 just to make the 1500 final last year at the conference meet. To score took 3:59. There are few high schoolers in the region who could do that, and of those many will go D1 or D2, or they may not even run in college. If you're a D3 coach I don't know why you would be in the business of turning away 4:30-4:50 1600 guys if they have a good attitude and want to put in the work (whether OP meets that criteria is certainly up for debate so I'm just talking generally.) Also, to those making Title IX arguments, doesn't that not apply if there are no scholarships? I get that there may still be roster caps because of bus space or just general budget, but I never heard of this being an issue in D3. At one point when I was competing Olaf had like 50 women on their XC team.
One other thing - I've gone to school and then worked in the Twin Cities for 15 years now and I've never met a Concordia grad. It's strange - like presumably they have decent enrollment since they're D2, but you just never hear about them. They had a good volleyball team at one point I guess, but that's all I really know about them.
If the coach is a "distance" guy, then it's really hit-or-miss when it comes to their sanity. Distance guys are notorious for being narcissists weirdos, far more so than others involved in the sport. After all, it does require masochism to enjoy pushing your lungs repeatedly to their limit for mile after mile. No sane person enjoys that.
Seriously, if the guy doesn't like you, forget him and move on.
Some people are not governed by logic and this coach could be one of them. You should never commit to a school without a tacit understanding you can walk on the team. For too many, they find they are too strong academically and end up at great schools where they can't run. If you can go elsewhere do so - this guy may never let you walk on no matter how fast you run or you may never get fast enough to hit his standards. If you're stuck with the school train your butt off from now until xc, update the coach a few times on results and ask to walk on, but be planning to transfer in the winter or at least after a year.
My advice is to be polite, acknowledge what the coach said and ask what his standards for the team are. Then go out and beat those standards. You could even go as far as to say what time would I need to be considered for the team.
Unless you are a top athlete who wants to either set college records and or turn pro, then you are going to school for academics and learning and running is just a side hobby for fun. No offense but with your times this is clearly the category you are in. If this is your top choice school attend and focus on academics and personal growth and keep training on your own. Then enter some events this fall / next spring and if your times have improved you will likely be given an opportunity on the team. If you haven't improved then the coach will have been justified.
I have seen coaches be hard asses about non-recruits walking onto teams and be right and I've seen them be stubborn and be wrong. It is impossible to know why he doesn't want you on the team unless you ask.
Lots of good advice on this thread. At a D3 school, the coach has less of a say on whether to put you on the team. If you are admitted and show in an invite that you beat the guys on the team, you can demand to be on the team. If he gives you the cold shoulder, he can get fired. This is not basketball where a coach could argue he wants a fast transition team and a 7 footer is too slow. Your time is the only thing that matters. You do not need to be stellar, either. The bottom line is that a coach has to have a reason for keeping you off the team if what you say is true. He cannot arbitrarily "not like you". Ask for the standards.
One of my children was coached by such as proverbial jackass. Performance was comfortably in starting lineup by any numerical standard. Jackass was eventually fired half-way through the following season. And Jackass was a former national team member (alternate) for the Worlds in his sport. Most powerful voice for his dismissal came from a much lower ranked athlete's parents - through the trustees. That's why I am saying that your actual numbers matter but what matters more is the principle. Why is he not letting you onto the team?
You do not have to please every coach out there. They are in a position of power. In recent times, it has become more common to politely challenge such a dynamic if you observe it. Stick to your principles. If 1) the school is right for you, 2) you are already admitted, 3) you meet the standard then make it known at every level in the institution that you are entitled to an Objective Explanation; "coach does not like you" is not one.
Make sure you are not misreading the information. You have to be polite and respectful of coach and institution but everybody has recourse.
I’m a SCIAC dad, but remain confused about D3 roster rules. Are there any actual limits or is it just coach discretion? Seems like it’s the latter. My older child was recruited, but my younger one, just a tad slower, will be walking on next year to the same team. During admitted student visits the attitudes of the coaches were all over the map, and there seemed to be no correlation to the strength of the team. Some schools were delighted to have my daughter join the team, in fact they went into recruiting mode on behalf of the school, while others gave her a firm no or would not even engage. Team B was in no way better than team A. Very strange. Anyway, it will likely be an unpleasant experience even if you manage to force your way on to a team where the coach really doesn’t want you. Best you can do is to politely and deferentially update him or her with your times as they evolve and see if their attitude changes. Once in college you can keep training and even enter meets unattached to prove yourself.
Itzmario wrote:
I didn’t expect so many replies. Some are really helpful. I am working on an email to the coach to plead my case again. I never met him or talked to him before I announced my commitment and I don’t think I did a good job of sharing how much I love running and being on a team. The Admissions people I met when I visited were very engaging and kind so I am emailing them too to see if they can help. I know the team is really good but frankly, I really want to run for them and will do everything I can to get a roster spot.
If you were really committed to running for them, you would have reached out to him your junior year. You definitely wouldn't have waited until 5 days before deposits are due.
Instead of trying to get admissions and other people to fight your battles, HOW ABOUT YOU RUN FASTER?????? Work hard for another year then try out as a sophomore.
When the coach says you are too slow, you are crying and saying "no I'm not" instead of saying "ok then I will get faster".
you might be talking about pre-admit engagement. Some Admissions Directors make it clear to coaches they are not to give the false impression there is such a thing as "support". Sometimes those are the weaker teams. In one case, a coach commented that in a prior year none of the nn people he supported were admitted so he decided not to play the game because he understood he had no influence.
Title IX applies. Of course there are limits. Some are imposed by the AD while others are somewhat self imposed by the coach. But taking another guy means he has to find another woman. And if neither are scoring, he isn't doing that.
Allowing another guy Menasha he has to cut a current one. He isn't doing that. Fired? What are talking about? He can have 10 slow guys while rejecting faster guys. He has full discretion. Nobody is entitled to a spot.
Smarter than wrote:
Title IX applies. Of course there are limits. Some are imposed by the AD while others are somewhat self imposed by the coach. But taking another guy means he has to find another woman. And if neither are scoring, he isn't doing that.
Got it. At my daughter’s school the men’s and women’s teams are separate, but I just looked up the rosters and there are about 20 more men than women listed, so I suppose the women’s coach has the ability to add easily and would guess the men’s coach does not.
chockopudge wrote:
If you are paying to go to the school, and the team is one of your goals, thdn ask why your tomes aren't wanted vs his current team.
Copy the AD.
Look for other options and take your money elsewhere.
No one needs 4 years of coaching pettiness.
Copying the coaches boss to try and pressure him into letting you join the team is beyond awful advice. Mentioning anything about anyone on the current team is also a terrible idea as some have said. If you state your times, I’m pretty sure they will know if they are faster than member’s on the time. Not sure why you are assuming their PRs from one meet either. Some of the advice on this forum is insane.
All you can do is plead your case to the coach. Your passion, work ethic, times, etc. Ultimately it’s their choice and they might just not want you.
More likely the school has women's soccer or softball or field hockey and doesn't have as many men's sports.
If you go over his head to get on the team, what will you go over his head to complain about once on the team? Writing to an administrator that you should do more threshold runs and less tempo runs? No coach or AD wants this situation.
consider that someone on the team already knows you and said they don’t want you as a teammate, or that a local coach passed a bad referral, or that the coach doesn’t like your personality. Then watch the movie “he’s just not that into you.”
Idk why some posters always have to be so dickish. OP is a young inexperienced high school senior. He obviously choose a college based on factors other than NCAA athletics (shocking), but is hoping to participate on the school's NCAA track team.
Did you inquire about what the standards are? Perhaps the standards are more than just running times.
Mr. Slowpoke wrote:
This friend attended grad school at a d1 and not only made the team but was a strong contributor, making the starting rotation on a team that made regionals, and later making an all-star team in a prestigious summer league. So guy who couldn't crack the starting 9 at a d3 goes on and is an all-star at a top d1.
Man that is some truly awful coaching. Whoever that is should be fired for incompetence.