Prayer to start a race

ekidenbiden wrote:

The only thing christians/the catholic church were/are more afraid then of science is...comedy/satire!

Read all the hate posts on the church of FSM homepage, it's so hillarious, people throwing bricks into a mirror.

Know who gets the angriest at those who poke fun at religion? The people who believe that the earth is a few thousand years old, that Adam and Eve were "created" as the ancestors of all of humanity, and that two representatives of every species of animal in existence were crammed onto a 500-foot-long wooden boat capable of withstanding a category 19 hurricane for a month and a half. That people born in the late 20th century can be trained to believe this is the height of hilarity, yet these weirdos are convinced that their beliefs should be off limits from comedians.

I've seen entire groups of people cross themselves on the starting lines of races. Inevitably, one of these humble servants of God finishes behind all of the others. What is he thinking on the way home?

What's he thinking? Why, it's the Lord's will, of course!

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

On that note, how come professional athletes never invoke their "faith" when they lose - at least not in live TV interviews? When they win it's all "glory be to God" and sh!t but where's the "yeah, we would have probably won the game but then Jesus made me fumble"?

I am glad that so many athletes are vocal about religion, though. Makes it easy to pick sides and get more involved when I'd otherwise be indifferent. Take Catherine Ndereba. On the one hand I acknowledge her incredible talent, work ethic and competitive psyche. On the other hand I can't watch a race with her without intensely wishing that she chokes or gets her ass kicked. Just so I don't have to listen to her ridiculous nonsense about how some dude who died 2000 years ago (yep, he's dead, get over it!) is somehow responsible for Alemu not being able to hang on to her pace.

If someone else prays at a sporting event it makes me perform badly...

i also want you to take a look at this graph:

http://www.venganza.org/pirate.pdf

It proofs that global warming is a result of the shrinking number of pirates in this world.

The church of FSM explains this so:"Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.

You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature. "

That should convince even such intellectual scientists as Jerry Falwell.

vesper,

Well put argument. I don't see why so many people feel inclined to put down a religion whose belief set has been used as the framework of our constitution, as well as one that teaches "Love your neighbor as yourself." If everyone followed this simple principle, no matter what their beliefs about God, then I think the world we live in would be a much better place. You don't have to be a believer to be a good person, just as not all believers are good people. But if you believe, you should want to be a good person (drawing off Plato's argument).

As far as praying before a race, it's something I do, but I always just go off to the side to do it. I don't do it asking God to help me win, I ask for the strength to run my best and I thank Him for the opportunity to be out there. When people praise God after winning, I don't think they're saying "God wanted me to win." I tend to be fairly private about religion, so I never invoke making comments like that after winning a race when someone asks me about it. I think to say "because God wanted me to win" is arrogant, because clearly God has more concerns than meddling with our races, and it implies somehow I've been favored over my competition.

God does give us different abilities, and by running our best we can honor him (parable of the talents). As Eric says in Chariots of Fire, "But (God) also made me fast. And when I run, I feel his pleasure." The ignorance and hatred being shown on this board is amazing: "What do the Christians who get beat by the heathens think?" Well I'm sure many non-believers have beaten me--what I will think is that they simply were given more ability or were able to get more out of themselves with less ability than I was.

So much of the ignorant questions would be answered if the examiners just picked up the Bible. Of course, that actually takes work and study, and most people here want a quick answer. I don't believe God wants it to be easy for us to follow him, that would cheapen it--it must be a faith-based decision, not a logical one. Pascal did try to present it in logical terms, the following is taken from Wikipedia:

If you were to analyse your options in regard to belief in Pascal's God carefully (or belief in any other religious system with a similar reward and punishment scheme), you would come out with the following possibilities:

You may believe in God, and God exists, in which case you go to heaven: your gain is infinite.

You may believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which case your loss is finite and therefore negligible.

You may not believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which case your gain is finite and therefore negligible.

You may not believe in God, and God exists, in which case you will go to hell: your loss is infinite.

So if you examine the above four choices in a game-theoretic framework, you would conclude that the dominant strategy is to believe in God. If you think you are too fast for God, think again, as Bekele, Geb, and Tergat are all Christians (El Guerrouj certainly believes in God).

Einstein said: My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.

If you think the spaghetti monster is that spirit, feel free to. The only thing harder than being a Christian is not being one. And for those of you who say Jesus was just a great moral teacher, here's what CS Lewis has to say on the topic:

Assuming that the Gospels are accurate, Lewis said there are three options:

Jesus was telling falsehoods and knew it, and so he was a liar.

Jesus was telling falsehoods but believed he was telling the truth, and so he was insane.

Jesus was telling the truth, and so he was divine.

Thus, Lewis maintained that one cannot argue Jesus was merely a great moral teacher because his moral teachings would be invalidated by virtue of either his lying or his insanity. On the other hand, if he was divine, he must clearly be more than merely a great moral teacher.

I'm coming into the ring now. I am sick of the smarmy, offensive tone that is being used to attack ernest believers running rampant over the one guy before who tried to give another side on Thanksgiving of all days.

So here's to you who write to stop taking this so seriously...

Until...

-Until hedonists who enjoy poking fun of Christians or any believers for that matter transform the live-and-let-live Berlin 'Love Parade' into a real parade of love...

-Until more people stop naming their children Francis or their schools, churches, hospitals, homeless shelters St. Francis...or any other real saint and instead name them after all the famous, selfless, devout atheist scholars, comical FSM posters, and kick ass, unstoppable sub 15:00 5k'ers...

-Until women like Mother Theresa substitute their nun clothing and wear FSM shirts or any atheist uniform in remembrance of non-existant God of live and let live....

-Until atheism spawns unconditional acts of love and kindness and attracts disciples to spread the word, start movements, and abandon their belongings.....

-Until the weight of evil acts by a human church outweighs the precious acts of countless followers of said 'church' often undocumented happening at this very moment under the all seeing eye of the pasta monster...

-Until the Dalai Lama refuses to see Popes like Pope John Paul II and Pope John Paul refuses to ask for forgiveness for the human evil of the past church....

-Until a genuine movement arises that teaches something else to a planet of clueless people given free will, besides 'Love one another.' that forces the world to drift into a better state...

I'm going to keep my faith.

Go ahead, have fun...I'm sure you will post your own smarmy 'until' responses mocking me, my religion, and my faith. Have at it fellow runners, I still love you. I just turned my other cheek. Go on. Hit me with the wet noodle of that funny little god or better yet, make a graph that correlates my unconditional love for you with the number of good deeds performed by atheists and righteous, mocking hedonists on the planet.

didn't evolve from a snail wrote:

El Guerrouj certainly believes in God

But he doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, which leaves him out, according to Christians. It would be good enough for the Jews, though.

It's ridicolous to even debate about that but:

Now what about the millions murdered by the hands of Christians?

Uhoh...,what about the former pope being friends with the Nazis and the Ustasa..uhoh, what about the thousands of priests caught for sexual abuse of children...uhoh.

Yes, christianity was always about love and help.

Who is responisble for the freedom women have now?

Surely not your superchrists.

And the bible is as much hateful,pro-war,pro-torture,pro-rape,anti-women than the Koran if not more(not that i like that religion).

Human beings killed in the name of the FSM:0

Human beings killed in the name of god:99999999999999....

"I don't see why so many people feel inclined to put down a religion whose belief set has been used as the framework of our constitution"

What religion would that be? Not Biblical Christianity, since - as I'm sure you know from the history you've studied in order to supplement your vast knowledge of evolutionary biology - the Founding Fathers were God-fearing deists with a pronounced scorn for Christians' hungering to control the government (which persists today, unfortunately).

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Thomas Jefferson:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.

SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,

by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short

Jefferson again:

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

More Jefferson:

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

Jefferson's word for the Bible?

Dunghill.

John Adams:

Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?

Also Adams:

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states:

The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.

Here's Thomas Paine:

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

Finally let's hear from James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they—the Baptists—who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state: Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.

In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should meddle in the beliefs of individuals.

The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest attention.

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This has nothing to do with pre-race prayer, which people should feel welcome to indulge in onan individual basis. But it's a problem that so many Americans swallow the "Constitution-as-Biblical-surrogate" idea, because it's a crock.

*Human beings killed in the name of the FSM:0

Human beings killed in the name of god:99999999999999....*

Besides the fact you are clearly exaggerating, you are unfortunately mistaken about certain facts.

Jesus' message was not of revenge or "eye for an eye." It was to turn the other cheek. Prominent Christians and non-Christians have exemplified this (Martin Luther King, Jr. and Gandhi for example). Therefore, no Christian in so much as he is performing the duty of a Christian will ever kill "in the name of God." Sure self-professed Christians commit murder, but a person who does such is not exemplifying the Christian life. And those who believe they are doing so in the name of Christ are brain-washed/crazy.

Priests sexual abusing children? You think that's what Jesus wanted? You have no idea what you're talking about. Those are human beings who have fallen into sin--whether you believe in Christ or not you're not immune from sinning! Jesus would be the first to condemn those false priests, as would any true Christian. It's like if some fat, 29 minute 5k runner told a bunch of people that he was an example of a good runner. Non-runners who don't understand running would mock running and be like "wow runners are fat and slow." That fat person is like the pedophile priest, while a 13 flat guy is like a faithful person who follows Jesus' teachings in every aspect of his life. If you want to criticize a group, you'll have to find fault with the truest examples, same as with Christianity. And the truest example of Christianity is Jesus Christ.

The Bible is not pro-war, pro-torture, and it is NOT IN ANY WAY PRO-RAPE. Now you are just spewing bullshit. As far as I know, neither is the Koran but I'm not qualified to comment on that. Have you ever read the Bible? Sure there were wars in the old testament. That is the way the world worked back then, tribes warred with each other. To survive you had to fight for your life. Christians were not supposed to be weaklings.

When Jesus came, he became the ultimate sacrifice and showed the way to live; his direction supercedes what the old testament commands. And if you think the Bible is meant to be interpreted the same way today that it was 5000 years ago you clearly don't get it. I'm not even going to bother with arguing further, I think the seeds are falling in thorn-infested soil.

what is FSM?

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

http://www.venganza.org/

1)I'm aware that the correct figure is not 99999999999....

2)Jesus had always "friendly" words and wishes for atheists..

3)Moses war absolutely pro-war,pro-murder and pro-rape for example:

(Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Now are YOU sure that you read the bible?

more quotes from the bible here(for enlightment!):

http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm

"The jewish people have been around three thousand years and will continue."

I don't know any modern jews who still slaughter lambs and stone adulterers.

I'm always amused how passionate some atheists are in belittling Christian or other religions belief in God. In the very least, it's not very practical. If Christians are wrong...no harm done. They've spent a fair amount of time in their life reflecting on or praying to something that didn't turn out to exist. Maybe they spent some time doing charitable or other good deeds to make sure they got into heaven. That's not such a bad thing.

If the atheists are wrong -- it's eternal damnation for them! I think they should hedge their bets and maybe go to church on Christmas and Easter just in case.

You are all wrong.

A giant Squid created the earth and all the people.

If you are cool and nice in life you get put in the big jar with the other cool people.

If you are a jackass, you get put in the little jar.

If you are in the middle, you get to spin the roulette wheel and bet on red or black to decide which jar you go to.

There are other things, but Squid doesn't really care if you believe in him or not.

May be you will go to heaven(when you die) when you say billy jean is not my lover 10000 times a day, may be not.

Why are you not doing it...no harm done.

You pray to god cause someone created the idea that you should do it or you'll end up in hell.

Now here is another one who says you should say billy jean is not my lover 10000 times or you'll burn in hell.

Do it, as you said:you can't loose!

When you forget that christianity is responsible for mass murdering, surpressing and hunting people because of their belief, their sex, their values, their heritage, their scientific work...beside all that christianity is pure fun, you don't need no monty python!