Exactly! I coach at a school that had no real culture because the prior coach had destroyed it. My first two years was developing the boys culture, because they had a full team, but we only had three girls. When I determined that it was time to fix the culture of the girls team, I took a hard working freshman girl, and we ran every run that summer together, except for workouts. In those runs, I explained everything I could to her about how to train, how to race, and how to lead the rest of the girls. The next year, we added three other girls, and repeated it. By then, they were too fast for me, as I was aging, and they were improving. Five years later, we have a very respectable girls team, and our guys are frequent flyers at the state meet. It would not have happened without all of those long training runs.
On a side note, nobody thinks it is odd for the basketball coach or the other coaches to get involved in practices. Baseball and softball coaches hit fielding practice. Basketball coaches demonstrate pick and roll, and other stuff. How do we coach them if we are not with them? How do we keep from being negligent, if we just send them off and do not supervise them? It is wrong to try to show them up on every workout, but demonstrating the pace or intensity is not out of line, even if the prudes like flagpole disagree.
Basketball coaches done join practice scrimmages. Baseball coaches don't go play the field or face live pitching in practice. Your comparisons show that you are a moron.
The high school XC coach doing an easy run with the team is equivalent to the basketball coach running a passing drill or the baseball coach pitching batting practice. The high school XC coach crushing his guys on a tempo or interval workout is equivalent to the basketball coach destroying the kids in a scrimmage. Big difference and I hope you understand.
When I first started coaching, I ran with the team. There were only a handful of runners and they needed mentoring along with coaching. As the numbers grew and the seniors came into their own, it was important for the seniors to mentor the younger runners. I transitioned to supervision of the varied runner groups on the roads or trails. This often meant I was doing a run backwards or looping through trails to catch other groups. As I aged my supervision was no longer running. As mentioned by other posters on this thread, the culture of your team and the leadership of your older runners will improve as you let them mentor your younger runners. My experience is that the less I ran with the team the better my captains were in leading the team.
Racing the team if it happens is weird but not the training part. I had a coach who would run the workouts with us and pushed us really hard. I think it helped me.
Small D1 program. Our coach runs our workouts with us. Not just easy days or long runs, but joins in with a group during tempo runs and workouts. It's not all the time, but becoming more frequent. Does anyone else have this? Maybe I'm over thinking it, but I find myself not being fully coached. I heard from some of the older guys he will enter races as well and race the team. I really don't want to race my coach.... does anyone have experience with this? suggestions?
No, its not that unusual, especially for a young coach who was a good runner to jump in during a rep or two or the cooldown. Now if they are doing all the drills, stretches and all the workouts, then yes...that is not the usual.
We used to have an adult hall monitor (not sure what the correct job title is) run with us who had no association with the team. He used to tell stories about being the Vietnam War. I didn't think it was weird.
I’ve been a coach at varying levels for 20+ years with about 9 of those years coaching high schoolers. I only care about making my runners better when I coach. With that in mind, if by pacing a group through their workout, it takes my attention away from others on the team, then I would not pace. We usually have had several coaches though and if we feel athletes need pacing help, we try to help to make sure their workout goes according to plan, but not at a cost to others.
I can’t think of a single time I’ve ever ran a workout with a team I was coaching that was for my own benefit. It always ends up being a sacrifice of my own training to help the athletes I coach achieve their goals.
So the real question to ask is not “is it weird our coach runs with us,” but instead, “is our coach running with us for his benefit or ours?” In this case it seems clear to me that it’s mainly for his benefit.
Also, a side question. I assume this is your head coach? I only ask because it does make a big difference whether or not you are talking about the paid head coach or perhaps an unpaid volunteer assistant.
Agree. But head coach especially In xc can join the various flights and sexes on the road. And even that requires judgement, boundaries, and, if you are so blessed, a finely tuned coaching sensibiliy and understanding of young people. Transference and counter-transference should be avoided.
Coaches who do this effectively--on the road or track-- compartmentalize their own training needs and egos. You shepherd and shape your kids as your job. Your job is to conduct the orchestra not play 1st fiddle.
Every day, including workouts, is weird. And this is coming from a guy who had a college coach that showered with us at away meets (2017). Here are the only options
1. He doesn't trust you all to do mileage or paces
2. He is a chomo
3. He has no adult friends/connections with your other coaches and is uncomfortable being alone
4. He can't close the yearbook or move on from the past
5. He is a genuinely nice person that just cannot let his athletes be athletes on their own
6. Your team is filled with a holes that run people off bike paths, swear at old women, or run in the middle of the road and he has the Athletic department breathing down his neck about it
Here is a thought. why would a coach NOT run a long / easy run with the team?
That’s a perfect time to get your own run in.
here is the difference - run with the team but not actually with them. run a different pace or start later so you are not actually physically close to them but are running on the same trail/course/location.
Currently the HS coach of the local girls XC runs "with" the team but it appears to be more of a chaperone thing for potential safety issues. Possibly to also make sure they are running the workout. This is on the roads.
When I was in HS, the freshman coach who was still an active and very good local competitor ran some of our workouts with us (when I was a junior and senior). He always ran with us and not against us. Typically he'd take the outside rear on a rep to not interfere. He'd often add to this workout for himself when we were done. I don't recall anyone having any issue with it at all.
Disclaimer: I’m a high school coach not college so maybe it’s a little different but what do coaches even do on runs if they aren’t running with the team? What a waste of time and opportunities to actually coach! Running with the kids is the most time that I have to actually coach them. Standing at the track with a stopwatch is poor coaching, all the kids have a watch now anyways. I’m amazed that a coach wouldn’t be out there with the kids. The only valid argument I’ve read here is it can get in the way of team dynamics, which I agree with. We have about 3-4 different ability level groups so I try to run with a different one everyday, so each kid doesn’t have me hovering around too often. I could see how that would be different in college as kids are closer in ability level.
I used to do it as a high school coach. Not for all workouts. Mainly easy, long and tempo. But for intervals I wanted tighter control. I only raced them in races outside of school. They needed some pushing though since the top runner was an 18 min 5k runner. The program was terribly underdeveloped.
I don't think it is weird. I think it is cool. My coach used to run with us during the runs as well. She was Sandra Gasser, 3rd at the World Champs in the 1500m and a 1.58 800m / 3.59 1500m personal bests. For her, the tempos were not a problem. Her husband (a former middle distance runner himself) used to pace us on track tacking parts of the distance (for example 200m intervals, when we did 100m repeats). It was fantastic to have them joining and supporting us.
Disclaimer: I’m a high school coach not college so maybe it’s a little different but what do coaches even do on runs if they aren’t running with the team? What a waste of time and opportunities to actually coach! Running with the kids is the most time that I have to actually coach them. Standing at the track with a stopwatch is poor coaching, all the kids have a watch now anyways. I’m amazed that a coach wouldn’t be out there with the kids. The only valid argument I’ve read here is it can get in the way of team dynamics, which I agree with. We have about 3-4 different ability level groups so I try to run with a different one everyday, so each kid doesn’t have me hovering around too often. I could see how that would be different in college as kids are closer in ability level.
What are you going to do when you're in your late 50's and you struggle to even run with the slower girls? I guess you could bike alone side them so you can continue to micromanage every aspect of their practice.
I think that running with the team is something that should be rare, and never in a track workout situation. Imagine how uncomfortable for a female runner to have her much older male coach out there on her long runs. Can't talk about boys, do you think she'll even feel comfortable enough to fart, or have to step into the woods for a pee? These are things that are sooo basic to running and you're making even that uncomfortable.
Don't be a control freak and don't rob those kids of the joy of going on a group run together.
Dude, if I can fart with them, they can fart with me.
Basketball coaches done join practice scrimmages. Baseball coaches don't go play the field or face live pitching in practice. Your comparisons show that you are a moron.
The high school XC coach doing an easy run with the team is equivalent to the basketball coach running a passing drill or the baseball coach pitching batting practice. The high school XC coach crushing his guys on a tempo or interval workout is equivalent to the basketball coach destroying the kids in a scrimmage. Big difference and I hope you understand.
I agree. Not sure how you got confused that I was saying otherwise.
CORRECT! The right answer is that a coach shouldn't do this.
As usual, you are wrong
And the two of you could start by reading the posts on this thread to see how wrong you are.
I'm with the poster who said that there are times when it's better for a coach to stand on the side and watch the athletes, time them, etc.
There are also times when it's perfectly fine for coaches and athletes to run together.
My runners, aged 15 to 22, are always asking me to run with them. Sometimes, during easy runs and warmups, some of the parents will come too.
If you think there is a problem with that, there is a problem with you.
This is the correct answer. It can be both. Sometimes they run with you and sometimes they don't. Even if they run with you all the time, who cares. You are a D1 athlete and you can't run unless your coach is on the sidelines?
I coach a local club, and while it isn't D1 XC there are some pretty legitimate masters in the group.
I usually do my own running every morning morning, and just manage/coach the workouts in the evening (twice per week, with a co-coach). On many occasions, though, I have done the whole evening workout or taken reps with the group.
I don't find I am any less able to see how the group is doing when I hop in a workout. Maybe more, as it is very clear who's running strong and who is suffering when you are shoulder-to-shoulder, see how they pace a repeat, etc. Times across the finish line don't tell you much, and tbh nobody sees that much from all the way across the track.
As long as your coach prioritizes the group during races, this seems fine. I would be a bit annoyed if I had a coach (paid or volunteer) who attended a track meet but didn't watch my race.
As a coach I occasionally do easy runs only but never workouts. Mainly XC. Track no as I coach sprints as well. I have a few times done workouts to help out an athlete at the end of the season cause they qualified and had no one to workout with.
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