What do the Norwegians know that we don’t?

I’m not sure that we should make this a whole culture thing. At the end, you only need one or two coaches to learn the method and apply it.

Blummenfelt, Iden and Stornes (the 3 Olympians) are all from Bergen and train together.

The Ingebritsen are three brothers. Nordas trains with them I believe.

So it’s really a couple of coaches in Norway at this point. Maybe more since we see a lot of great performances by young Norwegians right now.

Both these coaches have adopted the scientific approach however.

Helped a great deal! And I think your remarks are quite coherent. Thanks!!

Marius Bakken (13.06) is a big reason for the so called Norwegian model (he based it on old training too). He experimented his way to maximizing base training around threshold reps (2-3.5mmol) gave the best effect for him. (continuous running at this pace did not give the same so he stopped). He also measured a lot of Kenyans while doing his altitude training and learned they naturally ran at these lactate levels in all their training. It seemed they had (genetically?) developed a very high lactate threshold which gave them a competitive benefit. He felt he had to work considerably more to reach the same, but that the same levels of the internal states applied to all.

khcglhc wrote:

I’m not sure that we should make this a whole culture thing. At the end, you only need one or two coaches to learn the method and apply it.

Blummenfelt, Iden and Stornes (the 3 Olympians) are all from Bergen and train together.

The Ingebritsen are three brothers. Nordas trains with them I believe.

So it’s really a couple of coaches in Norway at this point. Maybe more since we see a lot of great performances by young Norwegians right now.

Both these coaches have adopted the scientific approach however.

this was a side-discussion not at all connected to threshold training

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

khcglhc wrote:

I’m not sure that we should make this a whole culture thing. At the end, you only need one or two coaches to learn the method and apply it.

Blummenfelt, Iden and Stornes (the 3 Olympians) are all from Bergen and train together.

The Ingebritsen are three brothers. Nordas trains with them I believe.

So it’s really a couple of coaches in Norway at this point. Maybe more since we see a lot of great performances by young Norwegians right now.

Both these coaches have adopted the scientific approach however.

this was a side-discussion not at all connected to threshold training

For sure and thank you for your insight on the Norwegian culture. It’s certainly a culture that we don’t know enough about.

It was also interesting to find out that Bakken was at the forefront of this thinking (what is he doing now?)

Clearly also it is not a “Norwegian” thing quite yet.

Here is an interesting stat:

Canada (pop 38 million). Only one guy has gone sub 7:41.5 (all time)

The city of Sandnes in Norway (pop 71K) has had 4. Three of them (Jakob, Filip and Nordas) achieved this in 2021 alone.

Even when we look at Sandnes, it’s really only the group that trains with Gjert.

Maybe it has started to spread some more. I would be interested to know if the Oslo group (IK Tjalve) or other Norwegian clubs have also adopted the same. Edman from IK Tjave (7:45.5) and Kbrom (7:47) from another club are doing quite well. Kbrom particularly has improved a lot.

XC skiing on roller skis in parking garages at 5am when you are old enough to go to Kindergarten helps. As well as checking your blood during routine tempo runs.

khcglhc wrote:

Norway, with a population of 5.4 million is all over the top of the endurance events.

Of course, we know about the XC skiers. But we told ourselves, who really does that sport.

Then there were the runners. First, the brothers, but now it is extending (Nordas, new young phenoms,

I agree but be honest, had it not been for the brothers does this thread exist started by you?

guy that knows about the gym wrote:

khcglhc wrote:

Norway, with a population of 5.4 million is all over the top of the endurance events.

Of course, we know about the XC skiers. But we told ourselves, who really does that sport.

Then there were the runners. First, the brothers, but now it is extending (Nordas, new young phenoms,

I agree but be honest, had it not been for the brothers does this thread exist started by you?

Perhaps not. Except that we saw it in track (Sandnes) and now in Triathlon (Bergen). You see the YouTube videos of both groups and they both seem to be using blood levels…

We will see this weekend if Blummenfelt totally rewrites the Ironman record book in Cozumel. Iden almost did last weekend (he was stopped by an angry ocean).

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Marius Bakken (13.06) is a big reason for the so called Norwegian model (he based it on old training too). He experimented his way to maximizing base training around threshold reps (2-3.5mmol) gave the best effect for him. (continuous running at this pace did not give the same so he stopped). He also measured a lot of Kenyans while doing his altitude training and learned they naturally ran at these lactate levels in all their training. It seemed they had (genetically?) developed a very high lactate threshold which gave them a competitive benefit. He felt he had to work considerably more to reach the same, but that the same levels of the internal states applied to all.

Kenyans do all their training at 2-3.5 mmol? Surely not?

I would have expected most of the Kenyan training to be well below this?

Ancient Mariner wrote:

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Marius Bakken (13.06) is a big reason for the so called Norwegian model (he based it on old training too). He experimented his way to maximizing base training around threshold reps (2-3.5mmol) gave the best effect for him. (continuous running at this pace did not give the same so he stopped). He also measured a lot of Kenyans while doing his altitude training and learned they naturally ran at these lactate levels in all their training. It seemed they had (genetically?) developed a very high lactate threshold which gave them a competitive benefit. He felt he had to work considerably more to reach the same, but that the same levels of the internal states applied to all.

Kenyans do all their training at 2-3.5 mmol? Surely not?

I would have expected most of the Kenyan training to be well below this?

It would be foolish to train all athletes at the same lactate levels. If you understand physiology you know I’m correct.

Doping. They know how to dope better than we do. That's honestly it.

khcglhc wrote:

guy that knows about the gym wrote:

I agree but be honest, had it not been for the brothers does this thread exist started by you?

Perhaps not. Except that we saw it in track (Sandnes) and now in Triathlon (Bergen). You see the YouTube videos of both groups and they both seem to be using blood levels…

We will see this weekend if Blummenfelt totally rewrites the Ironman record book in Cozumel. Iden almost did last weekend (he was stopped by an angry ocean).

…and guess who is leading Cozumel Ironman right now

Swim: 39:41 (current assisted, but…)

T1:1:52

Bike: going at avg 44.2k/h at 119km

He is followed by a Swede (Nilsson)

Could he go sub 7:20?

WR now 7:27

I’ll tell you one thing, they knew that dog wasn’t really a dog at all.

kinbbiibib wrote:

khcglhc wrote:

Perhaps not. Except that we saw it in track (Sandnes) and now in Triathlon (Bergen). You see the YouTube videos of both groups and they both seem to be using blood levels…

We will see this weekend if Blummenfelt totally rewrites the Ironman record book in Cozumel. Iden almost did last weekend (he was stopped by an angry ocean).

…and guess who is leading Cozumel Ironman right now

Swim: 39:41 (current assisted, but…)

T1:1:52

Bike: going at avg 44.2k/h at 119km

He is followed by a Swede (Nilsson)

Could he go sub 7:20?

WR now 7:27

WTF now avg 45.0k/h at 166km??? 46.8k/h avg in last segment???

He could split the bike below 4:00????

Sub 4 has only been achieved twice in IM history

where to get their burritos....

…and he is on 2:28 marathon pace after 7km.

Ironman marathon best is 2:34

3:31 min/km first 7km. Does he burn out or does he sustain it?

LarsL9 wrote:

3:31 min/km first 7km. Does he burn out or does he sustain it?

Actually, it looks like the split is actually short. Everybody is flying. Doesn’t make sense. Guy in 2nd is averaging 3:30 (it’s wrong)

Luv2Run wrote:

Since football and baseball are not endurance sports, your statement is lame. Having a focus on those sports is not doing anything to stop the US from developing great endurance athletes.

Not a statement without merit. If you do not count 800m as an endurance event, I guess you can may be narrowly partially correct. Are you considering 800m a long sprint as stated by Peter Coe? We know most great 1500m athletes were either 800m specialists or 800m/1500m or 800m/1600m athletes as teenagers, poster to whom you responded made a solid point. There are high school Am. football players whom are the best 400m/800m guys on hs T&F team. Since baseball players cannot compete in spring T&F, all we can do is judge baseball players by their 600yd or 600m physical education performances. Some baseball players outperform some varsity XC guys in 600yd or 600m in P.E.