koyPond wrote:
Oh my sweet naive child.
Oh you sad little cynic, you.
koyPond wrote:
Oh my sweet naive child.
Oh you sad little cynic, you.
The Original Rastus wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
These times weren't being run 35 years ago. You didn't have a bunch of guys running 3.28-29, let alone in one race. The wr was still around 3.30 and very few were anywhere near that.
But it isn't just the 1500. This has been a year of ridiculously fast times in every event - men's and women's - while leading up to the Olympics. Too good to be true. Especially after a period of reduced testing over the pandemic.
Why not what many of the analysts believe...a full year of solid training.
"A bunch of guys"???? I counted all of four and two of them had done it before. And that field was loaded, it was essentially an Olympic final field so the absolute best in the entire world were there. Why would you expect a weak ass race?
Cram's record was broken a month later by Aouita. What do mean guys weren't running these times? Spivey ran 3:31 in 1988 and Scott ran 3:48 for the mile back in 1982. They're faster than anyone we have right now.
And you know why?
No designer shoes, no man buns, no fear of venturing from the rarefied air of Eugene to mix it up with the best in the world. These guys tested themselves consistently against the best and that's how they got faster.
The "analysts" never talk about doping; they have to find an acceptable explanation. Athlete surveys have shown 1 in 2 championships-level athletes are likely doping. Add to that, testing has been greatly reduced in the last year. That's another explanation.
ShilohDoesntCare wrote:
Trucker Hat wrote:
Let’s be honest. It will an accomplishment for even just one American to make the Olympic final.
The American system is terrible when you account for population. All the pros are split up, no consistency in the NCAA or sub elite. We're overall awful in depth in distance. The Japanese are killing us in the marathon we should be at least as deep as they are yet we're sending Abdi to the Olympics and he's a fossil.
The depth is fine, it's the level that's the problem. Maybe it's a problem that the money sports take all the very best basic athletes so track is left with the best of what's left.
Even so, it's a little strange that with the huge number of mid and long distance athletes that pass through the NCAA, there hasn't been a genuine elite level talent, someone who could be considered a gold medal favorite, since Jim Ryun. Centro, Rupp, and Flanagan did well to get their medals, but they took advantage of fortuitous circumstances.
It might help if some promising athletes started running on the circuit earlier. There's no substitute for competing with genuine elites. Hocker is talking now about enjoying the college life, but his time is now, his development as an athlete won't be helped by repeatedly running 3:35 with a fast finish to smoke college kids next year. He needs to get involved with the big boys. Kessler offers hope, turning pro early. I'd love to see him race in Europe.
Number 12 wrote:
Nobody would argue that as evidence except a doping apologist fool like you.
McSweyn was a 5000m runner and had never ran the 1500m before 2017.
What did you learn in school to day? Ernest wrote: Some might even etc. and then I answered him. And then you call me a fool. Reading is diffucult, I agree. I used McSweyn, who be all means is a great runner, to illustrate etc.etc. But you didn't get it did you?
Lol. Centro won Gold and Ryun won Silver. You old heads are corny in how you act like things in the past were always better and pretend US track isn’t the best it’s ever been by a lot.
Poltergeist wrote:
Lol. Centro won Gold and Ryun won Silver. You old heads are corny in how you act like things in the past were always better and pretend US track isn’t the best it’s ever been by a lot.
Best it's ever been? Better than Schul, Billy Mills and Wottle - all gold? I remember when the US won all the sprint titles till Jamaica showed up.
Des Coburn wrote:
Number 12 wrote:
Nobody would argue that as evidence except a doping apologist fool like you.
McSweyn was a 5000m runner and had never ran the 1500m before 2017.
KaareV a doping apologist?
Yoh are a fool and an imbecile.
McSweyn is as suspicous as Katir, that is, as much as any fast improving young athlete.
Do everyone a favor and never post here again.
It’s not possible to hear other opinions, eh? So you think you are 100% correct and everyone else just needs to leave?
1 minute from 5000m? 8 secs to drop to 3’36?
As other posters have said, spend some time at the Spanish Training Center. You would be very surprised.
another sham scam wrote:
Des Coburn wrote:
KaareV a doping apologist?
Yoh are a fool and an imbecile.
McSweyn is as suspicous as Katir, that is, as much as any fast improving young athlete.
Do everyone a favor and never post here again.
It’s not possible to hear other opinions, eh? So you think you are 100% correct and everyone else just needs to leave?
1 minute from 5000m? 8 secs to drop to 3’36?
As other posters have said, spend some time at the Spanish Training Center. You would be very surprised.
*drop to 3’28.
That is rarified air, as is 12’50.
3:36 to 3:28 ? in one year? this is by far the biggest progression someone has ever made
I took a time and checked few all time top athletes and their progression to 3:28. Most of them came from 3:30, 3:31 a year before. Maximum was from 3:34 to 3:28, but no one jumped from 3:36 straight to 3:28
hill_runner wrote:
3:36 to 3:28 ? in one year? this is by far the biggest progression someone has ever made
Biggest progression ever? When I was a hs sophomore I ran a 5 min mile on 20 mpw. Junior year I ran a 4:30 on 50 mpw. Maybe Katir just upped his mileage. …Worked for me.
dullard wrote:
At least super sus Katir won't be running the 1500 in Tokyo.
Why do you have that opinion of him for the 1500m and I assume not the event he will be running ?
hill_runner wrote:
I took a time and checked few all time top athletes and their progression to 3:28. Most of them came from 3:30, 3:31 a year before. Maximum was from 3:34 to 3:28, but no one jumped from 3:36 straight to 3:28
But as noted, most did not go through a pandemic year of training where you didn't have peak for races and could build a massive aerobic base which is critical to enhancing your speed training.
Could anyone be certain that Katir wouldn't have run some low 3:30's in 2020 prior to this season? Remember he's only 23, so 21 pre-pandemic. Certainly you can't deny that is a prime age to make gains.
As I mentioned, guys back in the 80's sought out top competition...how many sub 4:00's did Scott run? Plus his race at LA he tried to push the pace, something no US runner would ever try today. He failed, but it was his only chance to medal.
The US guys today want to sit and kick, I respect Centro because his dad was part of that 80's era but he got a little lucky in Rio because guys like Kiprop were afraid to set a hard pace and Kwemoi fell early. The field was full of sit and kickers and Centro was smart enough to take advantage by pushing from far out.
And let's remember the 2014 result at this same meet. It was faster than this one. Why the big stink about 4 guys under 3:30?
1 Kiplagat , Silas KEN 3:27.64
2 Kiprop , Asbel KEN 3:28.45
3 Kwemoi , Ronald KEN 3:28.81
4 Souleiman , Ayanleh DJI 3:29.58
5 Iguider , Abdalaati MAR 3:29.83
6 Wote , Aman ETH 3:29.91
7 Willis , Nicholas NZL 3:29.91
8 Manzano , Leonel USA 3:30.98
9 Centrowitz , Matthew USA 3:31.09
10 Ingebrigtsen , Henrik NOR 3:31.46
11 Özbilen , Ilham Tanui TUR 3:33.1
He was a 3:37 guy in 2019 at age 21, so this is the proper starting point. Unless you want to play this same game with Jye Edwards who has dropped from a 3:41 guy to 3:32 equivalents all in the 2021 season as well.
Feels like you are missing Steve Scott and Jim Spivey here. While maybe not gold medal favorites (Scott not helped by US boycot in ‘80) they were running fast times on the circuit which seems to be your focus. The biggest prospect later was Alan Webb, but obviously his saga is full of nonsense. But in 2007 i think he was gold medal stuff but he pulled his hamstring in his 800 PB and Lagat won (after Webb smoked him at USAs). It’s probably notable that there was the massive sub-4 drought while it became increasingly common for foreigners (Canadian, Africans, New Zealanders/Aussies(?) to hit the equivalent age 18 and younger. So there was a dry spot but you’d still occasionally have major USA talent (Falcon, Kennedy). Now with more high school studs running crazy times in HS the likelihood of elite talent is rising for sure. I would expect you will see more Hocker/Nuguse type stories with an NCAA runner going straight to an internationally competitive level. The bar has been raised and being a 3:35 time trial guy is no longer the ceiling (Garcia-Romo, Kipsang).
The wr is 3:26 so a little more than 2 seconds off
Wise Old Man wrote:
hill_runner wrote:
3:36 to 3:28 ? in one year? this is by far the biggest progression someone has ever made
Biggest progression ever? When I was a hs sophomore I ran a 5 min mile on 20 mpw. Junior year I ran a 4:30 on 50 mpw. Maybe Katir just upped his mileage. …Worked for me.
Andrew Wheating went from 3:40 to 3:30 in about one year from 2009 to 2010.
Guess he's dirty too? Ok, he ran 3:38.6 in 2008, so that's 8 seconds increase, like Katir.
https://worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/andrew-wheating-14254665Charlie Chaplin wrote:
McSewyn actually looked disappointed at the end. I don't know if it was because of the realisation that he's still a big step behind Tim and Jakob, or because he fears a Moroccan doper is going to keep him out of the medals for the next 8 years.
Wow...let's blame doping for someone beating McSweyn.
As an Aussie myself and rooting for him, what is going to keep him out of medals, as I have repeated many times, is his 'one pace' running.
Look at the race. Once again, by the time they got to the bend he was over 10 m behind, running faster than the others to get back.
His style is pretty obvious next to the likes of Cheriuyot, Tekere, Ingebritsen, Katir...it looks like 'pitter patter' next to them. Needs to work on glute strength, get the knees forward and backlift high with a more forward lean.
Frustrating to watch, given how fast he can still go, wasting all that energy.
Almost every world class 1500m runner in the last 20 years set their PR at Monaco.
Kiprop
Kiplagat
Tim Cheruiyot
Jakob Ingebrigsten
Makhkoufi
Katir
Iguider
Manangoi
Farah
Kwemoi
Wightman
Ndiku
Laalou
Souleiman
Willis
Centro
Wheating
Manzano
And more
We should almost list their non-Monaco PRs to see how fast they really are.
But comparing what someone ran in Monaco to someone with a season best somewhere else is not a fair comparison.
El G. never did anything special in Monaco.
Morcelli set his second record in Monaco.