anonymous maximis wrote:
Hobbs still faster than anyone in the NCAA final......
Yeah, but like rojo says, it ain't all that impressive.
anonymous maximis wrote:
Hobbs still faster than anyone in the NCAA final......
Yeah, but like rojo says, it ain't all that impressive.
Except it was likely Robert Johnson that FORCED him to run the 5k.
take away
hocker can make the olympic team
he and Nuguse can go 332 in the right race.
there are like 4-5 americans that can make the team.
hocker can get on the team, but he may not be able to keep his peak that long.
stupid hocker was close to DQ cutting in front in the last meters, and i hate the DQ.
the reality is at the OG, there will be 20 guys that can close like and better.
we're talking levels.
we're talking a 332 vs 328 levels.
so, no, hocker can't medal at OG
it would be a good learning experience however.
probably a blessing in disguise is to miss the team.
because youngsters having a long and fantastic season, 100% almost crash and burn, and it's over.
as coach, i'd shut him down with the first excuse.
Haha. Reminds me of all the couch critics that used to ridicule Michael Johnson's running form/style. He only went on to set the 200m and 400m world records.
1:46.39, 3:36.47, 13:19.98 - all within four weeks (April/May 2021). Now that is super impressive at the age of 20. How fast can this kid go? I predict the following within the next few years, 2 to 3 years. 1:44, 3:32, 13:00-13:05. Caveat - I think his focus should be 8/15 next few years. Look at Marcin Lewandowski’s long 800 career paying dividends now in the 1500, where he (the Pole) will TOKYO medal contend.
Cole HOCKER
United States
DATE OF BIRTH
06 JUN 2001
Outdoor
800 Metres
Performance Place Date
2021 1:46.39 Katherine B. Loker Stadium, Los Angeles, CA (USA) 16 MAY 2021
Outdoor
1500 Metres
Performance Place Date
2021 3:36.47 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 07 MAY 2021
Outdoor
5000 Metres
Performance Place Date
2021 13:19.98 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 23 APR 2021
2020 13:32.95 JSerra Catholic HS, San Juan Capistrano, CA (USA) 04 DEC 2020
Outdoor
Distance Medley Relay
Performance Place Date
2019 9:58.91 Greensboro, NC (USA) 16 JUN 2019
Indoor
800 Metres
Performance Place Date
2020/21 1:48.44 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 13 FEB 2021
Indoor
One Mile
Performance Place Date
2020/21 3:50.55 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 12 FEB 2021
2019/20 3:58.20 Boston Univ. Track & Tennis Center, Boston, MA (USA) 28 FEB 2020
Indoor
3000 Metres
Performance Place Date
2020/21 7:46.15 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 13 MAR 2021
2019/20 8:15.41 Randal Tyson Indoor Center, Fayetteville, AR (USA) 01 FEB 2020
This race reminded me of a thread after NCAA indoors around Cole Hockers chances to beat Jakob Ingebritsen in a 1500m race. Of course that 1500m could be extremely fast (say 1.49 at 800m and 2.47 at 1200m) which obviously benefits a guy who has run 3.28 (Jakob) but that 1500m could also be extremely slow (say 2.02 and 2.57 at 1200m) which obviously benefits....hmmm, well who exactly would that benefit? Despite not having any allegiance to Cole Hocker other than thinking he is an awesome young talent (which he is), I stated that I believed he would have a chance to beat Jakob in a particular type of race, to which I was, in true Letsrun fashion, called an idiot, told I was unequivocally wrong, "JAKOB WOULD NEVER LET THAT HAPPEN" (which of course isn't the point in a hypothetical example) etc etc. Just lots of intelligent, fact based stuff as always.
So, quick question - we just saw Hocker run 3.35 off 2.01.2 at 800m on a somewhat breezy afternoon, running 52.2 for the last lap and again employing a sub 26.0 last 200m - are we still 100% sure, that this kid, could in no way ever take down Jakob in a 1500m race. Ever. No chance?
I want to give some context to show how good Hocker was today
Runner A
61.0
60.9
53.3
39.0
(3.34.19 - last lap 51.91)
Runner B
60.0
61.2
55.4
38.9
(3.35.35 - last lap 52.23)
Pretty comparable right. Sure runner A was 2 seconds faster in that 3rd lap which made up a second from the first 800m and put him a second clear at the finish but the point is we are not worlds apart here. Finishing power in the last lap/300m very similar. Runner A is Hichem El Guerrojou winning the Olympic title in 2004, Runner B is Cole Hocker today. If I could be bothered going back and researching more World/Olympic finals I guarantee I could find races where the splits of Hocker today are almost identical (Berlin 2009 is another one that jumps to mind - go watch it) - I just knew this was a similar style race in terms of where the speed was turned on. Not bad huh.
So for all you haters - Cole Hocker could absolutely beat Jakob Ingebritsen in a very slow 1500m - I don't think there is enough respect and understanding of how good he is turning on the afterburners and findings ways to keep getting speed out of himself in the last 200m. There it's said. Again. He can.
Hocker now posted 13:18.95, in 5000. Teare 13:12+.
Hocker: With regard to style I don’t think there’s much that can be fixed unless you get guru Salazar in the mix.
longjack wrote:
take away
the reality is at the OG, there will be 20 guys that can close like and better.
we're talking levels.
we're talking a 332 vs 328 levels.
Stuff like this.
There are 20 guys that can close better? Than 25.9 in a 3.35 race? Are you sure about that? Why don't you go ahead and name those 20 guys - you have NO CHANCE to do that. Zero.
What levels are we talking about here? You think that it all correlates like this - the 3.28 guys (all what, 5 of them?) will simply run a second faster in the last lap than the 3.32 guys just because they are 4 seconds faster at their absolute limits? You think this is how it works - the 3.28 guys close in 38 off the slow pace and the 3.32 guys close in 39?
You don't know what you are talking about. You clearly haven't followed this sport long enough and watched enough races to understand.
Cole Hocker will not win the Olympics - he might not even make the team. But that's not the point. The only thing he lacks right now is the experience of pro racing and putting himself in the right place at the right time (a-la the master, Centro). But he has all the tools if he is managed right moving forwards. And 3/4 of your statements still have no basis so thanks for your time.
malmo wrote:
train wheels wrote:
He has to have the worst running form of any NCAA champ. My goodness, those arms look like he’s milking a cow!!
You should be taking notes. What separates him is that he goes to the arms when he kicks.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
longjack wrote:
take away
the reality is at the OG, there will be 20 guys that can close like and better.
we're talking levels.
we're talking a 332 vs 328 levels.
Stuff like this.
There are 20 guys that can close better? Than 25.9 in a 3.35 race? Are you sure about that? Why don't you go ahead and name those 20 guys - you have NO CHANCE to do that. Zero.
What levels are we talking about here? You think that it all correlates like this - the 3.28 guys (all what, 5 of them?) will simply run a second faster in the last lap than the 3.32 guys just because they are 4 seconds faster at their absolute limits? You think this is how it works - the 3.28 guys close in 38 off the slow pace and the 3.32 guys close in 39?
You don't know what you are talking about. You clearly haven't followed this sport long enough and watched enough races to understand.
Cole Hocker will not win the Olympics - he might not even make the team. But that's not the point. The only thing he lacks right now is the experience of pro racing and putting himself in the right place at the right time (a-la the master, Centro). But he has all the tools if he is managed right moving forwards. And 3/4 of your statements still have no basis so thanks for your time.
Maybe I’m just uneducated, but there’s really only one guy I can think of that can close better than him right now. That would be Jakob I. I have no doubt that Tim Cheryuiot will beat both of them if he executes his race correctly, but Hockers kick really is on another level.
aztec the moronic wrote:
Except it was likely Robert Johnson that FORCED him to run the 5k.
Is there proof? Egregious if true.
Can he close like that to run a 3:31 which is what it will take to win a medal in Tokyo? That's why I'd like to see him in a pro race before the games. This was a good race, but nine guys broke 3:35 in a low-key meet in Marseille earlier this week, including Elliot Giles (800m guy) running 3:33. With super spikes and both Cheruiyot and Ingebrigtsen pushing the pace I think we'll see the top six go 3:31 or below. I don't think Hocker is ready for that yet but he's at the start of a long career
malmo wrote:
look at your thread title wrote:
Rojo, you have posted that it is inappropriate for posters to post "Mo Fu." Why do you do it?
I agree. Vulgar imagery should have no place on LRC. Its childish.
Rojo, childish? No!!!
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
There are 20 guys that can close better? Than 25.9 in a 3.35 race? Are you sure about that? Why don't you go ahead and name those 20 guys - you have NO CHANCE to do that. Zero.
Jakob ran last 200m in 25.7 in London DL 5000m in 2019 to finish second with 13:02.03.
His last 3000m was 7:47.
And he is only faster now. So I wouldn't be so sure that Hocker can beat Jakob in a slow race.
He has a shot at the Olympics, I think we all agree. Now you are speculating not about whether he can make the finals, but about whether he's faster than Jakob Ingebrigsten in a tactical race or whether he might be a half-second or second or two slower, but still in the mix coming into the home stretch?
Do you realize what a rare talent it takes to even be a part of this absurd conversation?
Big Juicy Steak wrote:
train wheels wrote:
He has to have the worst running form of any NCAA champ. My goodness, those arms look like he’s milking a cow!!
At five days past 20 he has plenty of years to prettify his form for ya.
He runs like a little kid. Head thrown back. It’s quite endearing in a way. He’s also extremely fast with it, so I wouldn’t change it!!
The Dirty Duck wrote:
He has a shot at the Olympics, I think we all agree. Now you are speculating not about whether he can make the finals, but about whether he's faster than Jakob Ingebrigsten in a tactical race or whether he might be a half-second or second or two slower, but still in the mix coming into the home stretch?
Do you realize what a rare talent it takes to even be a part of this absurd conversation?
You're right, this is absurd. He doesn't yet deserve to be in the same conversation as Ingebrigtsen. We're comparing a 3:35/13:18 guy with a 3:28/12:48 guy. It's dumb in the extreme. A reality check: Hocker is the 41st fastest person in the world this year, just a shade quicker than Mason Ferlic. Anyone who has watched the 1500 at the highest end for the last two years knows Tokyo will not be a tactical race, it's going to be all out from the gun, Cheruiyot always races this way and Jakob will follow him. A good kick isn't enough anymore
runderun wrote:
The Dirty Duck wrote:
He has a shot at the Olympics, I think we all agree. Now you are speculating not about whether he can make the finals, but about whether he's faster than Jakob Ingebrigsten in a tactical race or whether he might be a half-second or second or two slower, but still in the mix coming into the home stretch?
Do you realize what a rare talent it takes to even be a part of this absurd conversation?
You're right, this is absurd. He doesn't yet deserve to be in the same conversation as Ingebrigtsen. We're comparing a 3:35/13:18 guy with a 3:28/12:48 guy. It's dumb in the extreme. A reality check: Hocker is the 41st fastest person in the world this year, just a shade quicker than Mason Ferlic. Anyone who has watched the 1500 at the highest end for the last two years knows Tokyo will not be a tactical race, it's going to be all out from the gun, Cheruiyot always races this way and Jakob will follow him. A good kick isn't enough anymore
The distinction is his closing speed. I can’t find 2013 or 2015 world champs splits but those were both similar ish races IIRC. And if you compared the splits it would probably suggest they’d both be right there
Random question xyz wrote:
runderun wrote:
You're right, this is absurd. He doesn't yet deserve to be in the same conversation as Ingebrigtsen. We're comparing a 3:35/13:18 guy with a 3:28/12:48 guy. It's dumb in the extreme. A reality check: Hocker is the 41st fastest person in the world this year, just a shade quicker than Mason Ferlic. Anyone who has watched the 1500 at the highest end for the last two years knows Tokyo will not be a tactical race, it's going to be all out from the gun, Cheruiyot always races this way and Jakob will follow him. A good kick isn't enough anymore
The distinction is his closing speed. I can’t find 2013 or 2015 world champs splits but those were both similar ish races IIRC. And if you compared the splits it would probably suggest they’d both be right there
If someone finds splits I’ll chart it
runderun wrote:
The Dirty Duck wrote:
He has a shot at the Olympics, I think we all agree. Now you are speculating not about whether he can make the finals, but about whether he's faster than Jakob Ingebrigsten in a tactical race or whether he might be a half-second or second or two slower, but still in the mix coming into the home stretch?
Do you realize what a rare talent it takes to even be a part of this absurd conversation?
You're right, this is absurd. He doesn't yet deserve to be in the same conversation as Ingebrigtsen. We're comparing a 3:35/13:18 guy with a 3:28/12:48 guy. It's dumb in the extreme. A reality check: Hocker is the 41st fastest person in the world this year, just a shade quicker than Mason Ferlic. Anyone who has watched the 1500 at the highest end for the last two years knows Tokyo will not be a tactical race, it's going to be all out from the gun, Cheruiyot always races this way and Jakob will follow him. A good kick isn't enough anymore
+1
In todays reality of the world stage a 25s kick is a cool gimmick and not much more. 3:50 Centro style final is never happening again.
Now if Hocker can get to 3:30 AND keep his kick, THEN we're talking.