Will high school kids skip school teams to run club?

Cali55 wrote:

in the club wrote:

Isn’t it a high school team and isn’t he the coach of the the team? I always thought the goal of the high school team was to win their games or meets. If you’re a personal coach, I get it, but if you coach a team, for the high school, I would think that would be your priority. There are probably 100 kids on a high school team that would all love to be a part of a championship team. Putting THE SCHOOL’S interest above a handful of kid’s interests may be what his job is. That was the initial premise of the thread. Will this be a trend?

Sounds like the coach is putting the kids FIRST. That's a great coach!

Which kids? The top 5 or the other 95 on the team?

Yes, because they have to compete at the highest level possible in HS, if they skip a chance to run a big PR they will never have another chance to run well again. I just hate when people practice patience and develop an enjoyment for something. Just look at the losers like Bryce Hoppel, Clayton Murphy and Johnny Gregorek, they were racing big PR's early on in HS and turned out to be nothing but wasted talent. Their HS coaches should be hung by their testicles for what they did to them, just horrible.

High School Coach = team is first responsibility

Club or Personal Coach = individual performance is first responsibility

in the club wrote:

The Newbury situation is more of a hybrid. It’s a high school team, with a coach who teaches at the high school, but seems to be on a path of skipping the school meets to run open meets. Some blurred lines there and wonder if other top teams will follow.

I think people are missing the objective here. This year with COVID CIF made a decision to cancel the state championships. They didn’t announce CIF sectionals were a go until 2 -3 weeks ago. CIF is allowing athletes to compete and take part in club races during the season. They are always allowed kids to race unattached, but have made special approval to OK club competition at the same time. The Newbury Park kids are racing at a very high level and acceding to the coaches interview the Newbury Park kids had made plans to to race in Tennessee over a month ago.

This entire year has been hard on teachers, students, athletes, coaches, etc. Remember Newbury Park would be ranked number in CIF for their distance kids only. I can not find one sprinter that would score on that team at CIF. They coach is doing what the kids would benefit from most. Imagine forcing a kid to run CIF this year because your school wants a trophy.

They have always ran California CIF meets with Nico and their others in the past and I would expect them to do so in the future. It’s always easy to ridicule others when you’re not in their shoes.

Hats off to everyone for getting though this year.

in the club wrote:

Cali55 wrote:

Sounds like the coach is putting the kids FIRST. That's a great coach!

Which kids? The top 5 or the other 95 on the team?

You must not know how CIF works. You have to qualify for CIF. Only the kids who qualify are these top kids. I guess to you a trophy is more important them the kids themselves.

That’s the question. Will they go back to running CIF in the future or will the trend continue to run open meets? Are other teams and top kids considering this in the future?

Cali55 wrote:

in the club wrote:

Which kids? The top 5 or the other 95 on the team?

You must not know how CIF works. You have to qualify for CIF. Only the kids who qualify are these top kids. I guess to you a trophy is more important them the kids themselves.

To schools, yes, trophies are more important. You can criticize if you want, but that is what high schools sports are about; winning competitions for the school.

in the club wrote:

Cali55 wrote:

You must not know how CIF works. You have to qualify for CIF. Only the kids who qualify are these top kids. I guess to you a trophy is more important them the kids themselves.

To schools, yes, trophies are more important. You can criticize if you want, but that is what high schools sports are about; winning competitions for the school.

That’s sad a schools trophy is more important to you then the kids themselves.

I guess it is sad that schools have sports teams that have competitions where scores are kept and there are winners and losers. They should stop having league and stet tournaments.

EZ10Miler wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

How do you know there are so many horrible coaches doing the bare minimum to receive the coaching supplement? Did you conduct a survey? You're stating a theory as a fact.

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Because there are many many terrible coaches. It is, indeed, a fact. Been around the sport for a long long time, and there are a ton of really bad HS teachers in charge of track and XC teams that know little to none about the sport. No survey needed.

EZ 's observation is exactly 100% dead-on accurate. I realize many posters here coach HS track. I've read threads where most of the crowd claims to - and I believe them. They tend to defend their profession. The guys that are obsessed with the LRC MB are the ones obsessed with running. They are not the problem. The problem is the jokers who happen to teach in the district and needed the dough. If some of you suggest it doesn't pay, I suggest you not do it then, it does pay; that is why you're doing it.

What do you think about one of the football coaches who needed a Spring gig, and needs to keep an eye on his guys in the off-season? If you don't think that's where track coaches come from, you apparently didn't go to my school. I pointed out earlier that I did run, just not for the school's track team. A much more reasonable option than watching linemen throw every afternoon. The question of the thread is: how many kids will realize that the school is not the key to maximizing their individual potential?

I see different futures in different sports. In my area, swimmers and gymnasts probably benefit most from private TEAMS. They can choose teams and coaches from a wide assortment and levels of programs. They also are also very interested in competing for more than "one off" seasons. Too much of one sport for younger athletes is a problem in itself. Wrestlers who start a year or two before middle school usually benefit and because that sport is so technical, many supplement the school programs successfully while still fully committing to their school teams as they get older. Soccer Travel programs have degenerated into a big cash grab where I'm from.. Kids that can barely make a varsity team as juniors or seniors in high school are welcomed to "B," "C" and "D" level Travel Teams. Their parents spend a fortune of time and money traveling to practices that are far away and regular games requiring overnight stays.

I live in a hotbed of quality HS track and field. Most coaches have come out of quality scholastic programs themselves and they know what they are doing. Nearly all I knew also competed in college and are involved in clinics as presenters and attendees and otherwise improving their coaching. Yes, there are some schools that have weak coaches (particularly on the middle school level) but I believe most teams are well served. A number of the kids using private coaching have the "Lake Wobegon" syndrome where they are "above average" in their or their parent's heads and truthfully it's not the coaching holding them back. I have coached all levels from middle school through open competition with AAU (then TAC) teams. I received tremendous support from numerous coaches from other teams both as a high school athlete and then as a coach. As a head high school coach, I had knowledgeable and talented assistants. I don't think cross country or track and field will ascend to the same level of "private program/coach" orientation that is such a part of swimming, gymnastics , tennis golf and soccer. I see XC/T&F following more of the football, basketball, baseball HS model, where for many reasons kids compete for their school team and if they are truly being held back by a program, they transfer to a private or parochial school programs. At meets I still see field event coaches from other schools helping kids from other schools with the consent of the athletes primary coach and within the rules. It also seems that the coaching bench might be much deeper for T&F and XC than many other sports though more quality middle distance coaches seem to be available than sprint, hurdle and field event specialist coaches.

in the club wrote:

I guess it is sad that schools have sports teams that have competitions where scores are kept and there are winners and losers. They should stop having league and stet tournaments.

I think you still don't understand this was an anomaly of a year and stop ridiculing a coach for adapting to a crazy year for everyone.

Most people will never understand and that's why most programs are not so good.

It's sad you don't understand what a crazy year it was.

Finally wrote:

High School Coach = team is first responsibility

Club or Personal Coach = individual performance is first responsibility

You guys are proving exactly why kids with talent don't compete for their team.

I'm a HS coach who also has a club team. When I first dipped my toes into the clubs a knowledgable parent told me club was all about adults and nothing to do with kids. Not sure what he meant when he said it, but I found out real quick. Clubs are about parents and coaches egos and what those adults get to post on social media. Kids come last in club sports.

Cali55 wrote:

in the club wrote:

I guess it is sad that schools have sports teams that have competitions where scores are kept and there are winners and losers. They should stop having league and stet tournaments.

I think you still don't understand this was an anomaly of a year and stop ridiculing a coach for adapting to a crazy year for everyone.

Most people will never understand and that's why most programs are not so good.

It's sad you don't understand what a crazy year it was.

A lot of sadness I guess. Sad you can’t comprehend the response I gave. Of course it was a strange year.

It’s a very very simple question. Is a high school coach’s job to represent the school team to the best of his ability or to put a select few individual’s personal accomplishments first? I know it’s sad and it’s all for the kids, blah, blah, blah.

Maybe it’s sad that a bunch of kids on the track team could have been league champs or could have been part of a CIF championship team, but the coach who is supposed to be their coach as well, decided to put the best interest of a select group of kids ahead of their team. Don’t diminish how important it is for a kid to be a part of something bigger than themselves. That’s what being part of team is about. Even the 6:00 1600 JV runner, or the 20 second hurdler are part of the team. They contribute to the overall success. That’s what’s great about track and being part of a team. But it’s sad that you only care about the very best kids.

You’re a sad person! Go be a private coach so you don’t have to kick a bunch of kids you don’t value to the curb.

You obviously don't coach a group of high level kids and never will. You need to learn more about a satiation before you make judgment. Now thats sad.

I guess it’s a who is sadder competition. I may not ever coach a group of high level kids, but that’s not at all sad to me. I love being involved with kids of all levels.

Using high level kids to make yourself relevant and crapping all over a bunch of kids that don’t have value to you because they aren’t fast enough is much more sad.

99% of private or club coaches want to be big shots by hitching their wagons to star kids and taking the credit. Good high school coaches tend to stay out of the spot light and do their best to give all kids on the team the best possible experience. A significant part of the high school sports experience is team scoring at meets and doing your part for the team's success. There are countless quality high school coaches that don't have top athletes, but their kids compete hard for the school.

Man

Sounds like a bunch of butt hurt HS coaches on here.

If you are good HS coach, you won't lose your kids to the private coaches, but if you are parent and your kid has some talent and the XC is a guy that ran a 5k 5 years ago and only thinks Jack Daniels is a type of TN Whisky, then heck yeah.. get that private coach.

Oh and let's drop the "for the team!" BS.. running is an individual sport, the performance of one person isn't dependent upon another teammate*. The team aspect of running is contrived at best. When we're running we are all trying to beat everyone out there, including the guys that happen to wear the same uni.

*obvious exception of a relay.