deena needed help

For those who didn't run or weren't at Chicago it was pretty windy. Conditions were not "ideal" a bit warm over 55 by my thermometer at the start and windy. Having a pack or pacers break the wind would have been a big advantage today. In the last 2 miles the wind was pretty stiff right in your face. All along the course the wind was eating at you if you were alone. Eating the wind alone would suck and burn you up, it did to me.

chris zieman

Deena doesn't hire the rabbits the race hires them in response to one of the posters above.

I think the people on here who think there is some sort of 'controversy' feel in a perfect competition the pace maker shouldn't be favoring one competitor or another so they would prefer if he wasn't looking over his shoulder, telling the leader what her lead was and apparently offering encouragement at the expense of Dita.

I bet Clint did a great job 99.9% of the way. I'm a big fan of him and the whole hanson's program. He probably did remove a spectator, etc. And I said and it appears someone may have confirmed it the hanson guys kept a pacemaker with Dita the whole way so its not like Dita had it totally stacked against her.

Having said that, personally I would prefer it if at the end he just kept running next to Deena and didn't say much to her. I don't know what was said. At the same time, if I'm pacing her and she's dying like that I think at somepoint I'm going to look back to see where the others are.

And I'm sure some of you will say what's wrong with some generic encouragement for the person next to you? Thousands of people are yelling for her anyway and could tell her how far ahead she was. But the thing is they are not in the race, he is, and I don't like the appearance of the rabbits favoring one competitor over another although the rabbits by their nature (at least in a men's competition) are always favoring the leader. I think this whole thing got compounded by the horrible television coverage who never ever showed Dita over the final few miles until the final straight. They kept saying she was close but I never cold see her in the screen. All you could see was Deena running forward and Clint looking back and appearing to be yelling at Deena so it made it a bit more dramatic as I was upset yelling at the tv people to begin with.

The problem with pacemaking in women's races is the lack of depth in talent on the wmoen's side. There are no women good enough to pace the women. So male pacemakers are used. The difference/problem is they can run the entire way with the women so we see things we're not used to.

So if we want it to be more like the men's races the pacemaker's shouldn't go beyond 20 miles. I think this is a good solution. This way they truly are pacemakers. I think generally it is best for tv if they are off to the side a bit although the pacing help (especially if it is windy) isn't as good this way.

If they want the "escorts" to be escorts the entire way, then fine, but I think people just think it detracts a bit from the competition the more they are actively involved at the end. It may make sense to have someone on foot next to them to provide some sort of security that a cyclists may not be able to provide but ultimately a cop with a gun is also going to be able to do somethings a guy on foot won't be able to as well.

completely unfair. If it wasnt an American woman winning the b****ing wouldnt end. Please dont let me ever again hear of unfair pacing and rabbiting in a womens race.

The way wejo describes it is the way it SHOULD have been done.

not cheating ice-man?? From Runners world race update page:

Update 9:

Deena's letting the men lead her now, tucking in behind Clint Verran. They reached 7 miles in 36:49, for a 5:19 mile, slightly slower than they had been running. There might be some wind on the course that Deena is trying to avoid. The men's pack still has 23 runners in it. They passed 8 miles in 39:02.

how fair was this to Dita? She has every reason to complain. I hope she does.

Dita had an escort too! Especially in the first 20, Dita had the same opportunties to avoid the wind as Kastor.

You can't be serious. Back in the day, the tv coverage had difficulty covering the women at major marathons because of all the men around them. The women would "hide" amongst the men so their competitors couldn't see them and no one was accused of cheating back then. Get over it.

tommy 2 nuts wrote:

completely unfair. If it wasnt an American woman winning the b****ing wouldnt end. Please dont let me ever again hear of unfair pacing and rabbiting in a womens race.

Agreed. This was simply brutal. Anyone who has run a race of any sort who has seen footage of today's race must understand how shameful this was.

Just imagine if Korir had jogged a 2:21 beside a Kenyan woman (let's just pretend Ndereba), looking back and giving information on other competitors' whereabouts, and towing her to a *five second* victory over Kastor. Do you think that anyone here would defend them? NO. In act, there would be a massive b****fest demanding that Kastor be awarded the win, and we ALL know that.

Remember n Athens when Gezahegne Abera ran for about 30 seconds with an Ethiopian flag beside the course, cheering for Elfenesh Alemu? I do. Some of the same names supporting today's farce were calling for Alemu's disqualification back then. How soon they forget.

how freakin' thick are you people??? what rule was broken by this? you might not like it but it was completely within the rules. why aren't you b****ing that the men's pack had a full 23 guys in there to break the wind for whomever wanted to tuck in? dita had her own escort as well. she has "every reason to complain"? about what? what doesn't she also complain that she didn't like the color of deena's uniform?

Are you guys all idiots? Paula was paced in 2002 @ Chicago by the Hanson's. So, what's the difference?

rlb wrote:

Are you guys all idiots? Paula was paced in 2002 @ Chicago by the Hanson's. So, what's the difference?

Are you joking? I'll give you one hour to figure out the difference all by yourself, and if you haven't got it I'll tell you in small words. OK?

She wanted to let up because she knew she could not make her original goal and she was in a major state of pain.

Maybe no rules were broken, but that still doesn't make it fair.

Did I miss something. Did Deena get in a car for a couple of miles? Did Verran pick her up and take her across the finishline? I must be mistaken somehow. I thought Deena won fair and square today.

Thank you. lt's like having your best runner on the team pace a not so good runner to a pr in a race. I honestly don't see the big deal.

Bash, bash, bash… This is precisely why I make a point of avoiding this message board. The amount of negativity, hurtfulness, pettiness, and self-righteousness which permeates throughout these posts is nauseating. Since it’s all done anonymously, of course, I suppose we should add the word “immaturity” to the list. Deena Kastor just became the first American to win a major marathon in 11 years, and this is the type of reception she receives? Is it any wonder why the state of distance running in this country has been in such disarray for so long? Judging from the tone of the messages posted on this board, the U.S. “running community,” if you can possibly call it that, can’t possible be any less supportive of one another’s efforts. Some 50 years ago, Roger Bannister became the first human being in history to break four minutes in the mile -- and no one questioned the manner in which he did it. In fact, he was subsequently knighted for his contributions to both athletics and medicine. But that was then, and this is now. “Dissing” is so vogue now, isn’t it? It’s so very, very cool -- “ESPN SportsCenter” cool -- to talk smack and spew vindictiveness and tear down someone else’s hard-earned accomplishments. “Congratulations on your remarkable triumph, Deena.” There, now that wasn’t so hard, was it?

huh? wrote:

lt's like having your best runner on the team pace a not so good runner to a pr in a race.

Actually, it's like having a runner from your men's team pace, provide a windbreak for, and advise the best runner on your women's team throughout a hotly-contested race for first place in the women's race. Oh, yeah . . . and there's a six figure payoff for winning.

These analogies to midpack buddies helping each other out aren't particularly illuminating.

The only thing missing from Verran's performance today was a "Go, Deena!" t-shirt.

tito morales wrote:

Deena Kastor just became the first American to win a major marathon in 11 years

Huh?