What is the minimum raw speed of a 400m for a 4:15-4:20 mile?

A few states? That normally means 3. I clicked on 2018 outdoor and didn't bother adding indoor. Some states also focus on 1500. But here are some states and the number of kids who ran 4:18.xx or faster. Also bear in mind that these are from Milesplit which only catches about 1/2 of the meets. Several guys from my team ran PRs at a meet that is not included. It is way more than a few states and not all states are large.

AZ - 11

CA - 84

CO - 10

CT - 9

FL - 13

GA - 12

IL - 26

IN - 16

MA - 12

MI - 16

MN - 10

NJ - 36

NY - 20

NC - 11

OH - 24

PA - 17

TN - 19

TX - 33

UT - 14

VA - 12

WA - 27

WI - 10

I see that another poster is saying that the "4:20 isn't fast" thing was a quote from Nico Young's coach. It's really a shame that there are coaches out there talking like that. My high school coach had such a huge impact on me and my teammates by validating our personal accomplishments and encouraging us to go for more without putting us down. I wish we could all place more emphasis on the nice people in our lives than remembering the ones who put us down.[/quote]

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I personally knew Nico Young's coach nearly twenty years ago. Nice guy, but so super serious about running that he over-trained himself into semi-serious injuries 2x in the year I knew him. But to him nobody over 4:00 in the mile was any good...I even recall a conversation with a guy in the town who was a 4:01-02 miler in college and he acted like that was such a disappointment. Sheesh....But I get what he's saying. He's probably thinking that 4:20 in high school isn't that fast if you put in a couple of years of solid work. I ran in the 4:20's in high school several times and it took me about 20months of steady work (didn't really have a good coach). But everyone is different. I've known guys who trained like 8months and could run 4:20's because they had the genetics/biomechanics for it. But, at the high school level, if one isn't adequately aerobically trained (since the mile is sort of the shortest endurance race while being the longest sprint race so to speak) I'd say about 55ish give or take if you're moving up. If they are pretty well aerobically trained then maybe 58-60 fresh would be enough because I think a lot of it is determined by how efficient your biomechanics/form is. If you're pretty efficient in that area you're getting the most out of your legs with less effort...but to each his own...

For a high school runner a 4:20 should be about 1:59 - 2:00 flat. And given the small amount of mileage for most high school runners that would be a 54 - 55 for an 800. Once people start running a lot more they can run a 1:55 off of a 54 , but high school kids are simply not in that kind of stage.

Socialanxietyrunner wrote:

I am going to do a time trial today to see if my footspeed needs improved, does anyone know the minimum raw speed for a 400m for a 4:15-4:20 mile?

64s. 64x4/60= 4:16. You're welcome

Wow. Did not realize that many kids went sub 4:18 and even if that's a 1600 and not a full mile, that's a lot. In the dreaded 90s, there were maybe 15 of us that went sub 4:18 in Calli. and that's a big maybe. My guess is more like 12 or less.

Faster than ever wrote:

A few states? That normally means 3. I clicked on 2018 outdoor and didn't bother adding indoor. Some states also focus on 1500. But here are some states and the number of kids who ran 4:18.xx or faster. Also bear in mind that these are from Milesplit which only catches about 1/2 of the meets.

On that list I see 1 small/medium state. The rest of your list is a bunch of large states and a couple of medium sized ones. And from the one state I checked, those aren't mile times. The difference between a 4.18.00 mile and like a 4.16.00 1600 is pretty big in terms of winnowing the number of runners.

illinoisjones wrote:

I ran 3:59 1500 (~4:18 mile equivalent) with a 400m relay split pr of 58 seconds.

You probably ran dozens of 1500's and a couple of 400's. Also it's easy for a non sprinter to think they can sprint 400 all the way then fold.

If that was the case 47 guys could run 3:22 1500 unless you seriously think elite runners are worse aerobically than you.

For 4:20 most can run 54. It's possible off around 56

The best way to test speed is 200m fresh flat out. 100m depends too much on the start and, 400m on pacing.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

saved bell wrote:

I coach HS track. He didn't ask what us typical but what is the minimum. I had a guy 2 tears ago go 60-2:04-4:18-9:10

No, you didn't. I was as strong as it gets, and I managed 60,2;08,4:30 and 9:28.

A 4:20 guy needs about 54ish speed.

So you’re saying to run 10 seconds faster than you in the mile, someone would have to be 6 seconds per lap faster than you. Makes sense.

A thread that seems to pop up every year or so. The answer ... it depends. Although a runner who can't break 60 in the 400 isn't likely to sniff sub 4:20, it's certainly possible. Conversely, I've seen guys who can run 50 in the 400 who don't stand a snowball's chance of breaking 4:30, much less 4:20.

800 time is going to be a better indicator of mile potential than the 400 or 3200. Get your 800 at or under 2:00 and you're right there for a sub 4:20. The mile is a speed-based event.

Joseph McVeigh wrote:

I'm much like "illinoisjones" -- no need to go 55 to run a mile in the 4-teens -- my best marks:

400 - 57.6 (relay split)

800 - 2:04 (in practice, FWIW)

1500 - 3:59.6

Mile - 4:19.0 9 (could have been faster; I was doubling back later, so with the 3rd place points locked up, I cruised the last 75-80 yards).

These are almost exactly my times 40 years ago.

No it doesn't depend. The question was what the slowest 400 is where somebody broke 4:20. The slowest so far has been 60 seconds. If you are aware of a slower one, then let us know. But for now it appears that 60 seems to be the minimum 400 speed required to break 4:20 in the 1600.

Ca$hclay wrote:

Wow. Did not realize that many kids went sub 4:18 and even if that's a 1600 and not a full mile, that's a lot. In the dreaded 90s, there were maybe 15 of us that went sub 4:18 in Calli. and that's a big maybe. My guess is more like 12 or less.

If by "Calli" you mean California, you are WAY off. There were 4 in my high school my junior year, and only one of us made it past CIF sectionals.

56 if you’re an aerobic monster

I ran a 4:26 mile and best 400m at the time was 57sec so would estimate around 54.5 (4:15mile), 55.5 sec (4:20mile) Obviously this will vary slightly depending on the individual.

Socialanxietyrunner wrote:

I am going to do a time trial today to see if my footspeed needs improved, does anyone know the minimum raw speed for a 400m for a 4:15-4:20 mile?

I would guess 99% or more of runners would be able to run 56 or better to reach that time.

Most would be running 53, 52 or even better.

It is almost impossible to run a 4:15 mile with 57 speed or slower.

The minimum speed required obviously is gonna be 65 for a 4:20 guy and 63 for a 4:15 guy. but honestly, running a 4:20 mile isnt fast enough to say that you need a minimum raw speed. You could debate this maybe if you were a sub or low 4 min miler which would usually be sub 53 ish

In high school I ran 430 with 56 second 400 speed. On average ran only 30 mpw. Likely could hav e run under 420 if was running 50 mpw. In college ran under 410 with 52 400 speed. Likely could have run faster but rarely ran mile in college because many faster on my team. Was a better 5k and 3k runner comparatively. Also helps if you are in race if you can sit behind runners for the majority of the race and work last 200-300.

I think what is overlooked is not the raw speed or physical ability, but that to run a good 400m is a skill based around ability to relax at a very high proportion of maximal speed, and it's not one that many middle-distance runners would have acquired.

I don't think I ever broke 55 for the handful of 400m races I ran, but I had done 4x300 in 39/40 sec, 4x400m in 57.xx and could always throw in a 25 at the end of something like 10-12 200m with 200m jog where most were 27/28.

I would guess I could have run high :53.x if I'd acquired the skill.

I ran 1:57.5; 4:20; and 8:45 for 800m/1 mile/3000m

Of course there are outliers at either end. Really speedy 400m guys that drop off a lot, but can still run a decent mile, but slow in relation to their 400/800. Then at the other end the one time British record-holder for 6 miles, Martin Hyman was almost completely devoid of speed, and didn't break 2 mins for 880 yards, but ran a 4:06 mile.

I'd say for a median type guy who is 50/50 fast/slow twitch a 54/55 capability should get the job done

Salazar ran a 4:18 at the BC Relays when he was a junior in high school. I think his 440 best at the time was a 57.

Al was pissed 'cause Billy Martin of Catholic Memorial beat him.