I want a lifetime ban for a first offense whether it is doping, tampering, or cheating. I hate cheats and want them our of the sport.
I want a lifetime ban for a first offense whether it is doping, tampering, or cheating. I hate cheats and want them our of the sport.
hsuwvqfsifh wrote:
I want a lifetime ban for a first offense whether it is doping, tampering, or cheating. I hate cheats and want them our of the sport.
But whereabouts are not cheats.
Wada ban for drugs that are not improvers thus such athletes are not cheats.
Negligent are not cheats.
As we have more of your thinking with strict liability and zero tolerance we will have no sport left or not one that anyone cares about outside the sport.
Camo Cat wrote:
Coach: Lawrence Johnson
Agent: John Regis
Athletes are rarely doping without someone else knowing or assisting.
https://www.usatf.org/athlete-bios/brianna-mcneal
The same Lawrence Johnson that was banned from the NCAA for repeatedly cheating if I recall correctly.
rule readerr wrote:
hsuwvqfsifh wrote:
I want a lifetime ban for a first offense whether it is doping, tampering, or cheating. I hate cheats and want them our of the sport.
But whereabouts are not cheats.
Wada ban for drugs that are not improvers thus such athletes are not cheats.
Negligent are not cheats.
As we have more of your thinking with strict liability and zero tolerance we will have no sport left or not one that anyone cares about outside the sport.
Tampering with the whereabouts is cheating. If you are missing 3/10 tests in one year probability dictates that 30% of the time you are not where you say you should be.
Why would anyone clean do that.
TrackCoach wrote:
Looking at her career as far back as the NCAA, she does not fit the profile of what you expect to see for a doper. McNeal previously had whereabouts violations. As I have posted about several times, the whereabouts system is fair, but I don't think violations 'necessarily' says someone is a doper. However, when you are a 2 time offender, you lose the benefit of doubt.
Sorry, what? How does she not fit the profile?
- American sprinter
- MISSED THREE TESTS WHEN SHE WON OLYMPIC GOLD
- Mediocre in highschool. Okay in college. Came out of nowhere to run 12.26 first year pro: completely abnormal improvement curve
- American sprinter
- American sprinter
ukathleticscoach wrote:
rule readerr wrote:
But whereabouts are not cheats.
Wada ban for drugs that are not improvers thus such athletes are not cheats.
Negligent are not cheats.
As we have more of your thinking with strict liability and zero tolerance we will have no sport left or not one that anyone cares about outside the sport.
Tampering with the whereabouts is cheating. If you are missing 3/10 tests in one year probability dictates that 30% of the time you are not where you say you should be.
Why would anyone clean do that.
Unless proven that the tampering was to cover an actual positive then it is not cheating.
And don’t be so thicko to confuse tampering with missing three tests.
And incompetence and meeting the President may account for your last point.The panel that banned her did not agree with you.
Employment law criteria for negligence should apply in these cases otherwise we won’t have a sport.
rule readerr wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Tampering with the whereabouts is cheating. If you are missing 3/10 tests in one year probability dictates that 30% of the time you are not where you say you should be.
Why would anyone clean do that.
Unless proven that the tampering was to cover an actual positive then it is not cheating.
And don’t be so thicko to confuse tampering with missing three tests.
And incompetence and meeting the President may account for your last point.The panel that banned her did not agree with you.
Us this the same panel who let off dopers due to conveniently contaminated meat and supplements.
As they banned her for 8 years I don't think they believed her.
If someone refuses a drink driving test they get treated legally the same as a drink driver.
This is for separate missed tests and nothing to do with meeting the president. She was already banned for that.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
rule readerr wrote:
Unless proven that the tampering was to cover an actual positive then it is not cheating.
And don’t be so thicko to confuse tampering with missing three tests.
And incompetence and meeting the President may account for your last point.The panel that banned her did not agree with you.
Us this the same panel who let off dopers due to conveniently contaminated meat and supplements.
As they banned her for 8 years I don't think they believed her.
If someone refuses a drink driving test they get treated legally the same as a drink driver.
This is for separate missed tests and nothing to do with meeting the president. She was already banned for that.
Oh dear; appalling ability to concentrate.
The panel has not met yet.
I could go on but it would be such a waste.
Go back to coaching; if you can still find the sport to coach
They should apply whereabouts rules according to employment law (or even criminal law).
That way they won’t catch the incompetent and the sport will not be a PR disaster.
clon rarke wrote:
TrackCoach wrote:
Looking at her career as far back as the NCAA, she does not fit the profile of what you expect to see for a doper. McNeal previously had whereabouts violations. As I have posted about several times, the whereabouts system is fair, but I don't think violations 'necessarily' says someone is a doper. However, when you are a 2 time offender, you lose the benefit of doubt.
Sorry, what? How does she not fit the profile?
- American sprinter
- MISSED THREE TESTS WHEN SHE WON OLYMPIC GOLD
- Mediocre in highschool. Okay in college. Came out of nowhere to run 12.26 first year pro: completely abnormal improvement curve
- American sprinter
- American sprinter
+1
dullard wrote:
clon rarke wrote:
Sorry, what? How does she not fit the profile?
- American sprinter
- MISSED THREE TESTS WHEN SHE WON OLYMPIC GOLD
- Mediocre in highschool. Okay in college. Came out of nowhere to run 12.26 first year pro: completely abnormal improvement curve
- American sprinter
- American sprinter
+1
Read the 32 page decision before you comment.
A side point from this read is how USADA broke Wada rules to go to the airport to test her after she was not at home.
We heard the same sort of breaches with Coleman or from Coleman that such was expected.
Now AIU in charge and no leniency and thus loads of busts with loads more to follow.
Hang on tight and await the collapse of the sport.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
rule readerr wrote:
But whereabouts are not cheats.
Wada ban for drugs that are not improvers thus such athletes are not cheats.
Negligent are not cheats.
As we have more of your thinking with strict liability and zero tolerance we will have no sport left or not one that anyone cares about outside the sport.
Tampering with the whereabouts is cheating. If you are missing 3/10 tests in one year probability dictates that 30% of the time you are not where you say you should be.
Why would anyone clean do that.
1. Are you a teacher? People (including college students) just simply don’t do their work. Now imagine those same people being forced to update where they are every single time they aren’t at their house in their hour window.
2. Masks are required at every public place where I live. I can’t tell you how many stinking’ times I’ve forgotten my mask and had to walk back to the car. I KNOW I need my mask. Heck, I want to wear my mask (for safety and to be polite) but I still forget. I had a 4.0 all through high school and college-so I’m not even stupid-I just forget this important aspect of life every now and then. I have to wear the mask every single day and I still forget- how is that possible?? If I can’t remember to wear a mask, I can entertain the possibility someone who gets drug tested once in a 35 day period could forget to update their whereabouts.
Given my experiences with people, I think it’s very logical to conclude the combination of laziness and forgetfulness leads to whereabouts failures. They do not surprise me AT ALL. In fact, I’m surprised more people don’t have whereabouts failures. I’m not saying the athletes shouldn’t be held accountable, but unless you live under a rock or in some crazy utopia, it’s very simple to see how whereabouts failures happen. Just look at the world...when COVID is over, just spend a day watching people at the mall- while also thinking about the stupid, forgetful things you do- then it will all make sense.
One last point- for people actually doping- drug testing is likely to be more on their mind. So they would be less likely to “forget” to update their whereabouts. They could ‘dodge’ two tests, but why dodge the third. It doesn't make sense? Just take the test. The smart dopers are using methodically that’s unlikely to produce a positive test anyway. But either way, with a third whereabouts failures you have 100% chance of breaking the rules and facing sanctions. So any cheater would just take the test. Then they at least have a chance. People that aren’t doping aren’t going to be thinking about drug tests as much- so it’s easier to forget. They would then miss the third test inadvertently. Missing a third test inadvertently is really the only remotely rationale reason to miss a third test. So in a way, you could make a compelling argument that missing 3 whereabouts is actually evidence that you are clean.
c7runner7 wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Tampering with the whereabouts is cheating. If you are missing 3/10 tests in one year probability dictates that 30% of the time you are not where you say you should be.
Why would anyone clean do that.
1. Are you a teacher? People (including college students) just simply don’t do their work. Now imagine those same people being forced to update where they are every single time they aren’t at their house in their hour window.
2. Masks are required at every public place where I live. I can’t tell you how many stinking’ times I’ve forgotten my mask and had to walk back to the car. I KNOW I need my mask. Heck, I want to wear my mask (for safety and to be polite) but I still forget. I had a 4.0 all through high school and college-so I’m not even stupid-I just forget this important aspect of life every now and then. I have to wear the mask every single day and I still forget- how is that possible?? If I can’t remember to wear a mask, I can entertain the possibility someone who gets drug tested once in a 35 day period could forget to update their whereabouts.
Given my experiences with people, I think it’s very logical to conclude the combination of laziness and forgetfulness leads to whereabouts failures. They do not surprise me AT ALL. In fact, I’m surprised more people don’t have whereabouts failures. I’m not saying the athletes shouldn’t be held accountable, but unless you live under a rock or in some crazy utopia, it’s very simple to see how whereabouts failures happen. Just look at the world...when COVID is over, just spend a day watching people at the mall- while also thinking about the stupid, forgetful things you do- then it will all make sense.
One last point- for people actually doping- drug testing is likely to be more on their mind. So they would be less likely to “forget” to update their whereabouts. They could ‘dodge’ two tests, but why dodge the third. It doesn't make sense? Just take the test. The smart dopers are using methodically that’s unlikely to produce a positive test anyway. But either way, with a third whereabouts failures you have 100% chance of breaking the rules and facing sanctions. So any cheater would just take the test. Then they at least have a chance. People that aren’t doping aren’t going to be thinking about drug tests as much- so it’s easier to forget. They would then miss the third test inadvertently. Missing a third test inadvertently is really the only remotely rationale reason to miss a third test. So in a way, you could make a compelling argument that missing 3 whereabouts is actually evidence that you are clean.
I fully agree.
That why I say it should be employment law sanctions/ rules/ procedures.
This doping in sport moral panic inverts all our normal thinking as to what is reasonable and makes those who have not complied to be viewed as witches.
Get the ducking stools out this minute; that will clean the sport up.
Ok look; there is no sport left only a lot of rich witch hunters.
rule readerr wrote:
Now AIU in charge and no leniency and thus loads of busts with loads more to follow.
Hang on tight and await the collapse of the sport.
Wouldn't it be awesome to catch all cheats? There should never have been USADA "leniency" aka corruption.
I highly doubt that the sport would collapse, but the times would slow, to the dismay of both the IAAF and the fans.
casual obsever wrote:
rule readerr wrote:
Now AIU in charge and no leniency and thus loads of busts with loads more to follow.
Hang on tight and await the collapse of the sport.
Wouldn't it be awesome to catch all cheats? There should never have been USADA "leniency" aka corruption.
I highly doubt that the sport would collapse, but the times would slow, to the dismay of both the IAAF and the fans.
Collapse in the sense of sponsors and media coverage.
We are certainly seeing the effect of AIU actions and one does wonder about previous control methods.
But let the moral panic continue and we will all feel smug whilst the drug testers get rich.
c7runner7 wrote:
1. Are you a teacher? People (including college students) just simply don’t do their work. Now imagine those same people being forced to update where they are every single time they aren’t at their house in their hour window.
2. Masks are required at every public place where I live. I can’t tell you how many stinking’ times I’ve forgotten my mask and had to walk back to the car. I KNOW I need my mask. Heck, I want to wear my mask (for safety and to be polite) but I still forget. I had a 4.0 all through high school and college-so I’m not even stupid-I just forget this important aspect of life every now and then. I have to wear the mask every single day and I still forget- how is that possible?? If I can’t remember to wear a mask, I can entertain the possibility someone who gets drug tested once in a 35 day period could forget to update their whereabouts.
Given my experiences with people, I think it’s very logical to conclude the combination of laziness and forgetfulness leads to whereabouts failures. They do not surprise me AT ALL. In fact, I’m surprised more people don’t have whereabouts failures. I’m not saying the athletes shouldn’t be held accountable, but unless you live under a rock or in some crazy utopia, it’s very simple to see how whereabouts failures happen. Just look at the world...when COVID is over, just spend a day watching people at the mall- while also thinking about the stupid, forgetful things you do- then it will all make sense.
One last point- for people actually doping- drug testing is likely to be more on their mind. So they would be less likely to “forget” to update their whereabouts. They could ‘dodge’ two tests, but why dodge the third. It doesn't make sense? Just take the test. The smart dopers are using methodically that’s unlikely to produce a positive test anyway. But either way, with a third whereabouts failures you have 100% chance of breaking the rules and facing sanctions. So any cheater would just take the test. Then they at least have a chance. People that aren’t doping aren’t going to be thinking about drug tests as much- so it’s easier to forget. They would then miss the third test inadvertently. Missing a third test inadvertently is really the only remotely rationale reason to miss a third test. So in a way, you could make a compelling argument that missing 3 whereabouts is actually evidence that you are clean.
All that is fine and dandy, but, if you want to have the privilege to compete in athletics/the olympics, the bar is higher than..
a) a high school/college student remembering to complete and turn in their work
b) the everyday person remembering to grab a mask when leaving the car.
Heck, even the two situations you mentioned have natural consequences. For the student, they fail (and become ineligible). For the maskless person, they aren’t allowed to complete their indoor tasks.
Gotta play by the rules if you want to participate in the game. It’s that simple.
FWIW, the “people make mistakes” or “people are forgetful” argument was ruined by the athletes who used those arguments and then tested positive for PEDs.
macdaddy og 1 wrote:
c7runner7 wrote:
1. Are you a teacher? People (including college students) just simply don’t do their work. Now imagine those same people being forced to update where they are every single time they aren’t at their house in their hour window.
2. Masks are required at every public place where I live. I can’t tell you how many stinking’ times I’ve forgotten my mask and had to walk back to the car. I KNOW I need my mask. Heck, I want to wear my mask (for safety and to be polite) but I still forget. I had a 4.0 all through high school and college-so I’m not even stupid-I just forget this important aspect of life every now and then. I have to wear the mask every single day and I still forget- how is that possible?? If I can’t remember to wear a mask, I can entertain the possibility someone who gets drug tested once in a 35 day period could forget to update their whereabouts.
Given my experiences with people, I think it’s very logical to conclude the combination of laziness and forgetfulness leads to whereabouts failures. They do not surprise me AT ALL. In fact, I’m surprised more people don’t have whereabouts failures. I’m not saying the athletes shouldn’t be held accountable, but unless you live under a rock or in some crazy utopia, it’s very simple to see how whereabouts failures happen. Just look at the world...when COVID is over, just spend a day watching people at the mall- while also thinking about the stupid, forgetful things you do- then it will all make sense.
One last point- for people actually doping- drug testing is likely to be more on their mind. So they would be less likely to “forget” to update their whereabouts. They could ‘dodge’ two tests, but why dodge the third. It doesn't make sense? Just take the test. The smart dopers are using methodically that’s unlikely to produce a positive test anyway. But either way, with a third whereabouts failures you have 100% chance of breaking the rules and facing sanctions. So any cheater would just take the test. Then they at least have a chance. People that aren’t doping aren’t going to be thinking about drug tests as much- so it’s easier to forget. They would then miss the third test inadvertently. Missing a third test inadvertently is really the only remotely rationale reason to miss a third test. So in a way, you could make a compelling argument that missing 3 whereabouts is actually evidence that you are clean.
All that is fine and dandy, but, if you want to have the privilege to compete in athletics/the olympics, the bar is higher than..
a) a high school/college student remembering to complete and turn in their work
b) the everyday person remembering to grab a mask when leaving the car.
Heck, even the two situations you mentioned have natural consequences. For the student, they fail (and become ineligible). For the maskless person, they aren’t allowed to complete their indoor tasks.
Gotta play by the rules if you want to participate in the game. It’s that simple.
FWIW, the “people make mistakes” or “people are forgetful” argument was ruined by the athletes who used those arguments and then tested positive for PEDs.
Can you refer to any who have had a whereabouts ban and test positive?
The application and nature of the rules for students ( or employees )with work etc is no way a severe as for athletes.
You have failed to grasp that if the rules are so severe ( 4 yr bans from working in your profession etc) then it might be the rules that need changing.
The drug squads and traffic police don’t control by zero tolerance.
You are possibly right that a non mask wearer may have to stop his tasks but for four years.
Moral panic and inversion of all normal life.
Can Mac daddy explain why it is a privilege to compete in t and f and the Olympics ?
rule readerr wrote:
Can Mac daddy explain why it is a privilege to compete in t and f and the Olympics ?
Answer ?