Tim Hutchings savage quote about spring loaded mechanized shoes

You really should not try to come off like you know what you are talking about, when you don't.

hr measurement wrote:

I personally don't own a pair, and my first thoughts a year ago included the probability of it being mostly marketing hype, and there were posts made by some LRC's with experience in the shoes, and they were stating as much. However, we have since seen more evidence, and heard more compelling testimony. Serious athletes, particularly those training at sea level, are going to know how much, if any, benefit they provide (specifically for them).

Though it's possible that some people don't benefit from the shoes, it's hard for me to believe that most people could put a Vaporfly shoe on their foot and not understand immediately that it's going to make them run faster. Lab studies and observational studies show, unequivocally, that they provide performance benefits on par with a good doping regimen. I don't understand why people deny this effect. It's real. We see it in the multiple WR performances in various road distance events, and the huge increase in OTQs between 2017 and Jan 2020. At this point, denying the benefit of the shoes is denying reality. A 2:25:xx marathon in super shoes is not the same thing as a 2:25:xx marathon in pre-2017 racing flats.

hr measurement wrote:

You really should not try to come off like you know what you are talking about, when you don't.

Ok...nice argument buddy. Show some proof that I’m wrong in any of my post and I’ll gladly admit it. Or...you can quit trolling and just STFU and go away.

He's right, though. There's no good reason for the plate to bend, it's there mainly to stop the bending of the MTP joints, which unlike the ankle and arch, don't return any of the energy used to flex them during the gait cycle. The flat plates from years ago did this job but didn't offer any real benefit because the way that they were constructed forced the ankle to do more work. That's why the new plates are curved, to allow the toes to roll forward instead of putting all the load on the ankle. At any rate, the plate's still small potatoes compared to the benefit provided by the foam, but the shoe doesn't give the same benefit without both components, so it's there.

you're wrong wrote:

He's right, though. There's no good reason for the plate to bend, it's there mainly to stop the bending of the MTP joints, which unlike the ankle and arch, don't return any of the energy used to flex them during the gait cycle. The flat plates from years ago did this job but didn't offer any real benefit because the way that they were constructed forced the ankle to do more work. That's why the new plates are curved, to allow the toes to roll forward instead of putting all the load on the ankle. At any rate, the plate's still small potatoes compared to the benefit provided by the foam, but the shoe doesn't give the same benefit without both components, so it's there.

This directed to hr measurement*

I've done 2 marathons both in modern shoes. Does this mean I have no PB?

jlcalzada wrote:

Apologies, new to this forum. My previous post was an attempt to reply to "hold the press" regarding us old geezers not changing the world for the better.

I didn't get your point? If Hutchings is whining about new shoes being too fast to be real, should we go back to all leather shoes, no foam, no rubber, to make the sport real again?

No, just it means you utilized what was legal and available to you. If you aren't doping, those are your PRs.

that is your PR*

In that long winded post you're telling us carbon fiber is light and stiff?, FMD we all knew/know that.

So WTF is your point?

'ang on a sec. wrote:

In that long winded post you're telling us carbon fiber is light and stiff?, FMD we all knew/know that.

So WTF is your point?

Probably trying to explain the reality of things to the troglodytes who think that the plate is some magic spring that gives you free energy.

I like what Tim has stated, but the most important thing for the sport is to have an equal playing field and transparency in what shoes all runners in all races are wearing. Nike did not do this bc they only want to win.

What must be done now, is to give relevance to placing than times. Also, you can handicap these shoes by having races on beach sand. So as it stands now IMO, XC / trail runners are the real runners now.

briswiss wrote:

Who is Tim Hutchins? Be relevant and then maybe I’ll care about your opinion.

Pretty dumb take by a dumb individual. No sh*t a pr isn’t the same anymore. But if I’m racing against someone wearing the shoes or I want to compare myself against what everyone else is doing, I’m going to wear the shoes.

?????????

It’s Hutchings. You really should familiarize yourself a little better with the sport. In any case, his 5k pr is probably a few minutes faster than your’s with or without your special shoes.

hr measurement wrote:

You really should not try to come off like you know what you are talking about, when you don't.

So what shoes are acceptable?

What shoes do you wear for racing and training? If these shoes are different, could you tell me why you are not wearing your training shoes for racing?

In my mind it’s either barefoot or a single density foam midsole with minimal cushioning with a simple upper. This holds the foot on a bed of foam to protect from the road or bouncy and springy track. Anything else would also be technology doping.

gffhh wrote:

briswiss wrote:

Who is Tim Hutchins? Be relevant and then maybe I’ll care about your opinion.

Pretty dumb take by a dumb individual. No sh*t a pr isn’t the same anymore. But if I’m racing against someone wearing the shoes or I want to compare myself against what everyone else is doing, I’m going to wear the shoes.

?????????

It’s Hutchings. You really should familiarize yourself a little better with the sport. In any case, his 5k pr is probably a few minutes faster than your’s with or without your special shoes.

Sure, but why is he wingeing about faster shoes?

Does Hutchings career make his opinions more important?

And what else is to come? Will there be faster tracks? Will faster tracks be unfair?

Why do some people want to hold back progress?