Male Coaches: Never have one-on-one private interactions with female athletes

really wrote:

In my coaching career i have known 5 coaches fired for false allegations. Admistrations would rather just get a new coach then back up the old coach. All 5 coaches are out for good and refused to teach youths ever again. Went into real estate, Insurance, House Flipping oct.

Yeah, I bet.

Who knows what the actual amount is (a quick Google search yields studies that estimate 2-10% of rape allegations are false - way more than 1 or 2 a year and that's not even counting sexual harassment), that still doesn't mean you shouldn't cover your bases..

Did I say I only run with the top girl? No, I said at times I would run 1 on 1 with top girl. When I run with others it is usually not 1 on 1 as there are more girls of that speed.

I don't think some of you realize what living in a rural community is like. I can chose to not give kids a ride home, that results in me and that said kid sitting out in front of the school waiting for her parents for 2 hours. What's worse a 15 minute car ride or 2 hours....

I have a pretty simple rule, don't be a creep or do anything creepy. Trust the people around me and gain their trust. (Just because predators gain trust doesn't mean that trust is a bad thing to have or to try to earn, that's what being a good person leads to.)

This has never happened but if a crazy was to make an accusation not only would I have a multitude of adults and athletes who would know the truth and back me up, there would also be no evidence that the crazy could have.

I get needing to be careful, I really do. But there is a such thing as a coach-athlete relationship. This is more than just prescribing workouts and race plans. But it's 2020, if you are going to help these kids you do have to get to know them a little bit, just like a teacher. That means on a run you are going to talk with them, that means you might ride with them and their parents to an indoor meet. That means we might text them some, and I know this is a big "no no" but get real, that is how people communicate now, it's not inappropriate, it is the same as an email. I never worry about texting because I save all my texts and there is that part about me not being a creep or texting anything inappropriate. I don't want to hear the crap about "Oh someone can take things out of context", No they can't if you aren't a creep. Don't text inappropriate things and it's fine. That is how teenagers communicate, so you can let them have their own little world and not get to know them at all or you can actually communicate with them and guess what, sometimes having a coach help kids through situations actually helps them out alot.

Some of you are going to be alarmed by all of this and maybe in different communities things have to be different. But in small communities coaches and athletes have strong, healthy relationships that are appropriate.

I agree with a lot of what you said, a major part of successful coaching involves building relationships with your athletes. That's true whether you are coaching middle schoolers or masters runners. The old adage in coaching is "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" and I find that to be especially true in running. So yes, conversations that are about things bigger than running are crucial to building a successful coach athlete relationship.

BUT, it can be a difficult path to navigate. You want to be friendly, but ultimately you aren't their friend (I've definitely struggled with that, especially when I started coaching at age 24 and I would do many of the workouts with the college men I was coaching). And I don't agree with you that just because you don't act like a creep you won't ever get in trouble. First because definitions of creepy differ wildly amongst different people. And second because it's very hard for human beings to objectively assess their own behavior.

I think ultimately this is a nuanced conversation. If you're texting kids on the team constantly, running with individuals daily, and generally showering a particular kid with attention, you're asking for trouble. But the "never have a private conversation with an athlete, ever" mindset is deeply flawed as well. A good coach will be somewhere in between those two poles.

Every guy? Really? Nobody I know has ever mentioned false accusations against them. If every guy that you know has had this happen, you might want to consider who you spend your time with.

More common than people realize wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about. I am a man and had false allegations made against me by a woman by the time I was 26. My best friend had false allegations made against him by the age of 30. Literally every guy I know has had it either happen to him or happen to someone he knows well. My dad has been in upper management in his field for nearly 40 years, and allegations, often false, are a regular thing he deals with. I am only 32 and have been told stories of 4 different women now ...

And to be fair if I do need to have a private conversation with an athlete of a serious nature it will certainly not be behind closed doors and will include an assistant coach or our guys coach. Also when possible if giving rides will make sure that I atleast have more than one kid with me.

I would say I am hyper aware to what creepy is and absolutely make sure I'm not creepy, which is easy because I have no interest or desire to be. But also make sure to know what things might make people uncomfortable or question things and avoid them.

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

Every guy? Really? Nobody I know has ever mentioned false accusations against them. If every guy that you know has had this happen, you might want to consider who you spend your time with.

More common than people realize wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about. I am a man and had false allegations made against me by a woman by the time I was 26. My best friend had false allegations made against him by the age of 30. Literally every guy I know has had it either happen to him or happen to someone he knows well. My dad has been in upper management in his field for nearly 40 years, and allegations, often false, are a regular thing he deals with. I am only 32 and have been told stories of 4 different women now ...

Exactly.

NightNinja13 wrote:

I think ultimately this is a nuanced conversation. If you're texting kids on the team constantly, running with individuals daily, and generally showering a particular kid with attention, you're asking for trouble. But the "never have a private conversation with an athlete, ever" mindset is deeply flawed as well. A good coach will be somewhere in between those two poles.

I actually agree with this. I looked back and saw your response to my earlier post. Let me add some detail for context:

I coach at an exclusive private school in South Florida. Tuition north of 40K. Parents have more power than they should. Many feel they should get what they want because they pay the 40K.

I coached girls high school soccer (I stopped doing that 5 years ago) and currently track and field for boys and girls. A male high school girls basketball coach at this school was caught and subsequently fired for having an inappropriate relationship with his 16-year old athlete a few years back. Among the things he did, he would drop this girl home after games to help out the parents who both worked (does this sound like something that was posted in this thread?) A track coach that worked for a rival school caught and fired for making inappropriate contact with several of his female athletes last year. So, male coaches and their relationship with female athletes has been under tremendous scrutiny. We've had workshops, been briefed on new policies etc.

Part of why I quit coaching girls soccer was the nonsense from the kids and the parents. In my last season, that ended in the state finals appearance, I had an athlete claim to her parents that I yelled and called her names and threaten to never play her. Totally false and that was backed up by a female assistant coach that I intentionally asked to be present for a "pep" talk I had with this athlete after a practice. She was a senior who just wasn't giving effort in practices and her performances were being affected as a result. She flat out demanded that she should start and play more and threatened to quit if she didn't get more playing time. I took a very positive approach, was encouraging but made sure to say that her playing time was directly connected to how she did in practices. If she didn't practice hard, she wouldn't play as much as she wanted. Two days later I was called into my ADs office and asked to explain why this athlete claimed I was "abusive." After the season another parent claimed I cursed at her child and said it happened during a private post-practice meeting. I don't have private meetings and I NEVER curse while coaching. Both as private policy. The allegations weren't believed (as far as I can tell) by the AD, but that was it for me.

Having good relationships with your athletes is vital. As a throws coach I've found that if the student-athletes respects and trust you, there is so much more that can be achieved. Success isn't guaranteed, but the chances of achieving goals are significantly increased if the rapport between athlete and coach is good. If there is a need for a "one-on-one," and there is, during practice or competition, then it can happen under the right circumstances. Out in the open and in front of others, while keeping the conversation private. So I do it, and do it effectively.

But there isn't a single acceptable circumstance that I can think of where a male coach should be a lone in a car, a room, an office or anywhere else that is secluded with their female or male high school/middle school/youth athlete. It's just too risky, Too risky for the coach. Too risky for the kids.

It stinks, yes. But a few bad apples have absolutely changed the game. And if you aren't taking the right precautions as a coach you are leaving yourself open for trouble. Remember, all it takes is one false accusation. The moment that it becomes public, your life as you know it is over.

Indoor? wrote:

And to be fair if I do need to have a private conversation with an athlete of a serious nature it will certainly not be behind closed doors and will include an assistant coach or our guys coach. Also when possible if giving rides will make sure that I atleast have more than one kid with me.

I would say I am hyper aware to what creepy is and absolutely make sure I'm not creepy, which is easy because I have no interest or desire to be. But also make sure to know what things might make people uncomfortable or question things and avoid them.

"I make sure I'm not creepy"

Dude you just don't get it. You can be perfectly fine and 100% above board, but if your honest interactions are misrepresented you are a dead man walking.

And like I posted before, it doesn't matter if you are eventually proven correct- your reputation is shot, and you could easily lose your coaching and teaching gig.

Now imagine applying for other jobs and having to explain why you were fired?

This is certainly an idealistic stance to take, but I'm not worried in the slightest. It's easy to not get accused. Simply don't do anything wrong. This has not happened to me but there have been a few false accusations in our school. They go no where, no one loses their jobs, no one has any long lasting repercussions.

Once again, when you have the trust of the athletes and parents there isn't much to be worried about, but even less so when you have the trust of the administration.

I really think some of you just can't comprehend that things can be different or you are massively out of touch with reality in your own area.

Great troll job... good work.

Well said. I think we can all agree, males coaching young girls is a situation that is potentially fraught with peril. And it's especially so in track and distance running, because:

A) It's basically a full time sport where you see the kids essentially every day for 9-10 months of the year.

B) There is a lot more time to have those conversations...at meets, on busses, out on runs, waiting between reps for workouts.

C) The way our sport is set-up, the better a kid is the more time alone they will get with the coaching staff. A kid that is qualifying for state/regional/national meets will have less teammates with them as the year winds down.

So you combine these things and you have a situation, especially if it's a younger coach, things could get dicey. Every coach needs to be aware of how their behavior is going to be perceived not only by the athletes but by parents, other members of the team, other adults in the building, etc.

This sounds like a 20 something year old male coach is having run dates with high school girls alone

If you do this enough guaranteed something bad is going to happen. You should probably think about working at the college level. At least you won't be committing a felony if nature overcome social norms

Seriously I don't know how picking up a high school kid and hang out with them alone is not prohibited by schools even if it's under the guise of a coaching activity. Kids should be hanging out with other kids and coaches should be coaching and making sure there safe and giving them some guidance but not going on dates with them

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

Every guy? Really? Nobody I know has ever mentioned false accusations against them. If every guy that you know has had this happen, you might want to consider who you spend your time with.

More common than people realize wrote:

You have no idea what you're talking about. I am a man and had false allegations made against me by a woman by the time I was 26. My best friend had false allegations made against him by the age of 30. Literally every guy I know has had it either happen to him or happen to someone he knows well. My dad has been in upper management in his field for nearly 40 years, and allegations, often false, are a regular thing he deals with. I am only 32 and have been told stories of 4 different women now ...

I didn't say every guy I know has had it happened to them. I said every guy I know (should have said every guy I know who is 30 or older) has either had it happen to them or personally knows someone who has had it happened to them. In my best friend's case, he was a PhD student, and the girl was an undergraduate lab tech. She claimed sexual harassment and stalking even though the two were never around each other 1 on 1 and there were always 2-4 other people around. She tried to use the fact that their cars were parked next to each other once as evidence of stalking. There was a big investigation, numerous people were interviewed, no evidence was ever found, but it resulted in a tremendous amount of stress and grief to my friend, and he was out about $2000 from talking with a lawyer about everything as a just in case sort of thing in case things escalated.

Anyone who doesn't think this sort of thing happens need only look up cluster B personality disorders and their prevalence in the general population. Any woman with BPD, NPD, APD, or HPD is absolutely a potential threat to everyone she encounters, and merely brushing shoulders with these types is sometimes enough for them to launch some sort of insane smear campaign against you. I know because this is what happened to me, and there is a whole body of research on this.

TrollingDatBridge wrote:

Indoor? wrote:

It's easy to not get accused. Simply don't do anything wrong. This has not happened to me but there have been a few false accusations in our school. They go no where, no one loses their jobs, no one has any long lasting repercussions.

Once again, when you have the trust of the athletes and parents there isn't much to be worried about, but even less so when you have the trust of the administration.

I really think some of you just can't comprehend that things can be different or you are massively out of touch with reality in your own area.

Great troll job... good work.

Yeah, I was on the verge of responding seriously to this poster, but that last post finally woke me up to the trolling.

Okay, he got me. Well played.

Aside from the fact that this is good advice, it's also pretty much mandatory if you're under SafeSport's jurisdiction. Being alone with an athlete is potential "grooming" behavior that you're supposed to report internally.

NightNinja13 wrote:

So we're talking in any given year about roughly 80,000 track coaches in the US. How many do you think have been fired for acting inappropriately towards a student athlete? 1%? If so that's 8,000 coaches.

Just tell me that you're not a math teacher, please.

I was telling one female about the best weight for peak performance, and she said I called her fat. So, if you can have a nutritionist as the 3rd person that could suggest a diet plan for peak performance, you won't even have to tell her that's she's too fat to run fast.

Most coaching is unpaid.

Most coaching of technical events is one to one or has a large element of such.

Many ex athletes are just saying that the whole correct ness of social policies and the risks of inadvertently breaching these are causing them not to bother with coaching.

I fully understand these decisions as home life and the day job are too important to risk.