I mainly do it like you have suggested, before the main body of the session. I am a sprint coach though...
I think one of the things often forgotten is that sprinting itself is a plyometric activity. If there's a good amount of speed work in the programme, I'm not sure a great deal is needed. I tend to have more plyo work in general prep when the volume of high intensity running in my programme is lower.
I had a horrible strength facility and couldn't do much. I tried it sparingly as I coached HS students and very few were ready for anything more than a general prep program.
Exercises I did were dead lift or front squat
Then hurdle hops
Then weighted jumps or band resisted box jumps
Band assisted jumps
I used the 40 inch looped bands. I liked landing on a raised platform (resisted box jumps) as it is supposed to be easier on the feet and lower legs.
V,
Quick update on switching the order of workouts
I have not yet attempted starting the week with SE, however placing SpE (specific endurance) before the Aerobic workout has made a noticeable difference. Not only am I able to get a bit more "quality" out of the SpE (smoother and faster) but also the rhythm of the subsequent aerobic workout is much better. Getting the legs to turnover fast and the complement of preparatory drills early in the week has set the stage for better runs. I've carried over a bit more fatigue to the long run, but that is just to get in time on my feet. I'm a bit cautious about changing too many aspects at once, but so far so good!
Thank you all who chimed in.
Question for anyone but what about wickets? I know a lot of sprinters use these and they help your sprint form a lot. I want to include them a bit but I don’t know where to fit them into a distance program. I am doing a speed development workout once per week that consists mostly of 50-60m reps (6-9) or short hill reps with full recovery. I am guessing adding wickets to this day would be too much. Can wicket runs be added after an easy run? Should I replace the speed development session with wickets once every few weeks or should I mix in a combo workout with speed development and wickets? Or should I just introduce them at the beginning of a training cycle when there is less mileage and more time for these.
How often would you include a speed endurance workout and how soon for a 5k? If I am trying to peak in late November should I start these in mid-September? Every 2,3,4 weeks? Should I start with something like the post easy run example and then work toward something like 5-6x150?
Not An Expert wrote:
OP, if running 75mpw doesn’t compromise your ability to do all the other work at the level it needs to be done (including this CNS/speed development work that, yes, should be done during base phase), then it can be done. If you find that you’re not able to do the other work you need to do To develop as a runner at the effort level and with the form it should be done with and not get injured, well, then you can do it. Here’s how I would try to get there if I were you, and also build in an off-ramp for yourself before 75 mpw in case it’s too much:
-Race your TT
-Recover for a week, do one light workout, then race a shorter TT (either 3k or 1-mile)
-Take one week entirely off, then take another week where you run no more than 4 days, no more than 20 total miles and no runs longer than 6 miles
-Consider the next week to be week 1 of training, and build as follows:
Week 1: 6 days, 30 miles, no runs longer than 6 miles, 2 days of 4 x 100m @ 400m efforts w/ walk/jog back for recovery at the end of an easy run
Week 2-3: 7 days, build to 40 miles, no runs longer than 8 miles, build to 3 days of 8 x 100m @ 400m effort at the end of easy days in each week
Week 4: repeat week 1
Weeks 5-7: 7 days, build to 50 miles, and 4 days of 8 x 100m @ 400m effort at the end of easy days, add 1 day of 4-6 x 10s hills all out w/ 5 mins easy jogging recovery, build your long run to 10-11 miles and run it and up to one other easy run per week as a fast finish if you’re feeling good
Week 8: 6 runs, 35 miles, 8 mile “long” run, 3 days of 8 x 100m @ 400m effort
Week 9-11: Now your real training begins! Stay at 50-55 mpw with an 11-mile long run (can still be fast-finish For the final 3-4 mile if you’re feeling good), and add 1 day of 3 x mile (becoming 4 x mile, then 5 x mile) w/ 90s recovery at 15k-10k effort and 4 x 800m @ or just slightly faster than 5k effort w/ 400m jog recovery (becoming 5 x 800m then 6 x 800m). Do 2 days of 8 x 100m @ 400m effort and 1 day of 4 x 200 @ 800m-400m effort at the end of easy runs, with one day of either 6 x 10s hills all out w/ 5 mins easy jog recovery or 6 x 60m all out w/ 5 mins easy jog recovery (alternate).
Week 12: 6 runs, 40 miles, 9 mile “long” run, 3 days of 8 x 100m @ 400m effort, 1 day of 3 x mile @ 10k effort w/ 2 mins recovery followed by 2 x 200 @ 400m effort w/ walk/jog back recovery.
Week 13: Now that you’ve built to an appropriate, maintainable level of different types of aerobic stimulus, you can add up to 1 mile to your long run and 5 mpw total to your previous peak totals every week (still taking a down week every week), as long as you can still do 1 day of 15k effort intervals, 1 day of 3k-5k effort intervals, an 11+ mile long run w/ a fast finish for the final 3-4 miles, and the speed maintenance/efficiency days at the end of most easy runs. If you struggle to hit paces on your workouts, or feel excessively fatigued on your easy runs, or can’t maintain crisp form on your speed development work, take a down week, back off to what you did the last week you could successfully do all of these elements, and know that that’s your peak for this cycle.
Starting in week 9 you can replace any of the workouts with a race of 1 mile-12k, and once you’ve done 2-3 weeks at your peak you can drop your mileage and do whatever types of sharpening workouts work for you, and race 2-4 times over the next month before calling your season a wrap.
Did somebody mentioned that this is a great post? Short and comprehensive. I like it very much. Thank you Not an Expert.
Antillar Maximus wrote:
V,
Quick update on switching the order of workouts
I have not yet attempted starting the week with SE, however placing SpE (specific endurance) before the Aerobic workout has made a noticeable difference. Not only am I able to get a bit more "quality" out of the SpE (smoother and faster) but also the rhythm of the subsequent aerobic workout is much better. Getting the legs to turnover fast and the complement of preparatory drills early in the week has set the stage for better runs. I've carried over a bit more fatigue to the long run, but that is just to get in time on my feet. I'm a bit cautious about changing too many aspects at once, but so far so good!
Thank you all who chimed in.
Awesome. It's not always noticeable, but glad you're finding some success with it. The idea is definitely not mine, but stolen from a lot of sprint programs and some progressive distance coaches that have some clever ideas.
39xc2 wrote:
Question for anyone but what about wickets? I know a lot of sprinters use these and they help your sprint form a lot. I want to include them a bit but I don’t know where to fit them into a distance program. I am doing a speed development workout once per week that consists mostly of 50-60m reps (6-9) or short hill reps with full recovery. I am guessing adding wickets to this day would be too much. Can wicket runs be added after an easy run? Should I replace the speed development session with wickets once every few weeks or should I mix in a combo workout with speed development and wickets? Or should I just introduce them at the beginning of a training cycle when there is less mileage and more time for these.
I have learned to like wickets a lot more over the last few years. I follow a similar progression to one of the sprint coaches I used to work with whose had quite a few All-Americans the last few years. He starts kids off with wickets as a teaching tool (in place of speed dev). When technique improves he'll usually add more wickets to each rep or adjust spacing as needed. Once they get to where mechanics are where he wants he'll usually use them as an easier day or start off speed dev sessions with them just to make sure his kids start the session off with the right movement patterns.
- When you start with wickets make them the sole focus and for long enough that athletes start to "get" them (this may take longer for some than others)
- Once they're good enough shift them to being a reminder of what good form is at the start of a workout
- Later in a season they can be lower intensity sessions if you don't want to run them quite as hard. Or just have them serve as reminders of the basics
39xc2 wrote:
How often would you include a speed endurance workout and how soon for a 5k? If I am trying to peak in late November should I start these in mid-September? Every 2,3,4 weeks? Should I start with something like the post easy run example and then work toward something like 5-6x150?
Speed endurance sessions are the lowest priority for me with +5k runners. You could honestly not do them at all and be no worse for it with the majority of athletes.
"Peaking" (some coaches hate the term) comes much more from your reduction of volume making athletes feel fresher, and your increase in anaerobic workouts to improve buffering and the enzymatic balance that we're looking for to race fast, but can't necessarily sustain for long without eroding endurance qualities.
That means your workouts with high lactic acid or the ones that at very least push past race pace for long enough to really feel it will do more for peaking.
Speed Endurance sessions are best for those times when you think, my kids probably got just about everything they could from speed development, let's give them a new challenge. In this case it's just going to replace a speed development day and just be conscious of what they need to be ready to handle the day or two after so we don't interfere.
I'm more likely to start by subbing out 1-2 speed development reps with longer ones (ex/ 6x60m might become 4x60m + 120m + 150m). If we get to those (weather and fitness permitting) they'd probably start popping up in early October if it's in the fall. In track we're getting into them much earlier since we tend to stay pretty fast in the fall.
V (and other posters),
Thank you for your inputs. Here are some updates after about 12 weeks of dedicated speed development:
I cut out a mileage day and dedicated one day to speed and power. I don't know if my mid-D times will improve (have not done any time-trials ) but I am certainly having more fun. As trite as it may sound, running fast is exhilarating. As a master's athlete, I did NOT expect to stay healthy by a)dropping down in distance and b)incorporating maximum velocity training in my routine. HOWEVER, I must say that so far, I feel better than I've felt in years of plowing through mileage training for the 5k/10k/HM.
For anybody interested, here is my speed development routine (kudos to my excellent training partner for making this a regular affair!)
Throws - shot forwards and backwards 2 x 2 x 6, 4 x single hand shotput.
Drills
Starts: 2 x standing, falling, rolling, 3-point, 2 x 3 prone variations
Either : 4 x 30m 3-point OR 4 x 10m fly
AND 2 x 6 x 20m fly OR 2 x 6 x 60m fly
Session duration: ~ 2.5 to 3 hrs.
Here are the results (FAT, Freelap timing system):
10m fly improved from 1.56 to 1.23
20m fly improved from 4.05 to 2.84
30m start improved from 5.75 to 5.33
60m fly improved from 9.66 to 8.94
What is the next level of progression? I have cut down my mileage drastically (running about 35 - 40 mpw, with one hill repeats session, one hilly 60min run, an 80min long run and light jogging).
Hope, you can pop in with some more thoughts!
I like the detail. Good use of throws to add some power safely. My group doesn't do those anywhere near the consistency that we should.
As far as next steps go, I think it's time to make them more functional. You've clearly gotten faster and in the distances that you're using it's helping with:
A) Speed Reserve (Should make slower paces feel easier since you're farther from your top speed)
B) Improved Coordination and Rate Coding (ties into everything, but better ability to recruit muscle as well as turn agonist/antagonist muscles on and off more efficiently which should help economy)
C) improved PCr system (if you're someone that subscribes to the idea that this area is actually trainable)
I'd begin mixing in SE1 reps into your speed dev day. Keep about 1/2 to 2/3 of the workout how you've been doing, but tack on 1-3 reps that push into speed endurance and special endurance 1 distances. Usually we would move into 120m, then 150m, (both speed endurance), then into 200m. I don't place as big an emphasis on speed endurance as speed development and we really do just enough to get the coordination benefits that come from maintaining good form past 80m.
Eventually you need to be able to deal with the acidity that comes with longer reps. Using your last example of 2 sets 6x20m fly, you could do something like this:
4x20m fly + 2x80m + 120m
4x20m fly + 3x120m
4x20m fly + 2x150m
3x20m fly + 150m + 200m
4x20m fly + 2x200m
4x20m fly + 250m + 200m
3x120m + 300m + 100m
Everything with speed development or speed endurance keep with a full recovery. reps past 150m you can use shorter depending on the goal of the session. A lot of coaches like using short recoveries early in the season (around 3 minutes) to keep the athletes speed under control, then lengthen the recovery as the season goes to full recovery. This allows them to run faster and makes it look more and more like a race. You can think of the earlier workouts as training to train and the later ones as training to race at least if you were living in the sprint world.
That said, if you read up on things like "Feed the Cats" from Tony Holler, he's going to suggest everything be max effort and to ignore the partial recovery stuff for all but maybe 3 workouts in an entire season. He's a damn good coach, but he's also not dealing with distance athletes.
Since what you've been doing has seemed to work, it might be wise to do something like a 300m or 350m time trial to see where you're at and what might need to be worked on. You may find that this stuff really clicks with you and that just continuing it with some very minor adaptions allows you to keep improving.
And take a look at your 60m fly and see how long the total distance is with the lead in. If it's 20m or more then you're already hitting 80m sprints and can skip a lot of that and start looking into the +120m stuff
You can also have full blown SE1 sessions mixed in that play by a slightly different set of rules. Just about anything 100m-300m with partial recovery fits the bill. 2 sets of (300m, 200m, 100m) w/ 4 minute rest is a pretty basic one early on or something like 6x200m w/ 3-4 minute recovery. Early on they won't quite hit 400m race pace except maybe on the short reps or on the last rep or two. It's only when the total workout volume drops and the recovery lengthens that you'll see speeds hitting and exceeding 400m race pace.
nomadiclife wrote:
So i'm finishing up my 10 week training plan in a few weeks where i hope to pull off a sub 17 time trial. Now i'm starting to think about the next few months. Since i'm pretty under developed aerobically (only been running 5 months) i plan to do an extended base over the autumn and winter where i increase my mileage from 50->75ish and get lots of consistent miles in. However i'd also like to work on my 400m speed as it's quite pitiful at the moment and I think i can improve a lot with some focus. Would you recommend doing both at the same time. I was thinking of doing 1 interval sessions of 200s, 2 x hill sprints, and 2 x plyometrics/strength workouts a week with an occasional tempo run. Looking for other good workouts to improve my top speed too.
Start adding in small sets of very fast, fastest turnover and best efficiency possible, at the end of 3-5 runs per week. 4-8 repeatss anywhere from 30m to 60 m in length. Not basic striders, focus on your all out speed and most efficient form.
V wrote:
I hate pulling out the " as a Division I coach," line,
. I had a girl that was very fast, think top 5 in her country kind of fast. But she was horrible with tempo runs and it really hurt her in cross. We tried slowing them down, and changing the set-up , but really didn't see any changes.
Tempos weren't what she needed to work on. It was a symptom, not the source. Physiologically what I wanted her to improve was her Lactate Threshold (LT). So we leaned into things that looked like what she was good at (track work), but worked on what she needed. Repeat miles worked great; used shorter recoveries and a slightly faster pace. 1-2 mile tempos followed by 3k pace reps she was fine; the tempo wasn't so long that it psyched her out. Alternating paces between tempo and 1500m, again, right in her wheelhouse; gave her a chance to build up lactate on the fast reps and clear them on the longer, slower reps. g.
I feel sorry for this woman...did she run fast in college for the distances that she was "top 5" in the country in HS?
Was she a finalist in NCAA Div I championships in those distances?
Or were you coaching outside of Div I at that time?
V, thanks again for the insights. I added the throws at the suggestion of my training partner.
Shot backwards improved from 5m to 7.3m
Shot forwards improved from 4.8m to 7.1m
Shotput (recent addition) 5.1m.
Broad jump(recent addition) 2.2m
I would like to add some box jumps, but I'm not sure how, (when and how much) to do them correctly. I also tack on hurdle drills such as step overs, time permitting. Wish I were 20 years younger though!
The progression list is very helpful. Yesterday, I tacked on 4 x 100m around the bend after the flys. I was definitely slowing down and getting tired by the last rep. However, I was more balanced and in control than a straight line fly. I hope this isn't an indicator of something breaking, down the line.
I have not been actively monitoring my recovery, but if anything, I might have erred on the shorter side, usually dictated by how long it takes to roll out soreness in the calves etc. The lead in with the fly sessions are usually 25m for me (shorter for my training partner). I like to build up a bit more gradually (it feels safer).
I'll give it a few more weeks of the earlier prescription before adding full SE1 sessions into the mix. I don't think I am there just yet, in terms of resilience/strength. What are your thoughts on the long run? At times, it is a drag and I feel on the verge of injury, but it also helps me keep my weight under control. Not sure if I should program the volume in other ways, such as a double day instead of one "big" run.
yhwh wrote:
I feel sorry for this woman...did she run fast in college for the distances that she was "top 5" in the country in HS?
Was she a finalist in NCAA Div I championships in those distances?
Or were you coaching outside of Div I at that time?
She was a freshman last year so I'm still working with her, she did pretty poorly in cross country for her level of athlete but set indoor PRs in the 800m and Mile (using a 1500m conversion).
Also, that was insanely misleading on my part to say "top 5 in her country," when I should have said that she was top 5 at her national championship which would have been U18 for her. That would definitely be me misrepresenting her. She's a great athlete, but that doesn't put her near All-American status here.
For box jumps we start with pretty small boxes (6", 12", 18") and focus a lot more on the concentric side (jumping) early on, then move into learning how to land well (usually sticking the landing), before we get into proper box or depth jumps where we drop from one box to the ground and immediately jump onto the next one. All of this comes after a period of in-place jumps, some time with a jump rope would work as well.
I don't have any great rules on it, but we start with a lot less total contacts (touches on the ground) than we think we need and progress very gradually.
V wrote:
For box jumps we start with pretty small boxes (6", 12", 18") and focus a lot more on the concentric side (jumping) early on, then move into learning how to land well (usually sticking the landing), before we get into proper box or depth jumps where we drop from one box to the ground and immediately jump onto the next one. All of this comes after a period of in-place jumps, some time with a jump rope would work as well.
I don't have any great rules on it, but we start with a lot less total contacts (touches on the ground) than we think we need and progress very gradually.
Hey V. I’d love your input on my current training schedule. Do you think I’ve arranged the following correctly? I’ve tried to find a way of having 3 hard days each week, 2 sessions of weights and 2 sessions of Plyometrics and a speed development day without stacking up too much stress at one time.
I’ve been building up to this over December:
Mon - speed development evening heavy lifting and plyos (light plyo session die to sprinting earlier)
Tue - tempo or broken tempo reps 8-12k of work
Wed - very easy
Thur - race pace reps or 200s/hills and weight lifting after with plyos
Fri - very easy
Sat - long run followed by core and “extra stuff”
Sun - off normally cross train on the bike for 3 hours or hike in the country with the family.
Any advice to tweak this? I wondered if it was better to do the first heavy session on Tuesday not Monday? But then there is 3 days of plyometric stuff in the week.
Also, with two separate sessions of weightlifting and plyos any advice on how you’d split those two sessions? Many thanks. I’d love hear your input.
Legolas wrote:
Mon - speed development evening heavy lifting and plyos (light plyo session die to sprinting earlier)
Tue - tempo or broken tempo reps 8-12k of work
Wed - very easy
Thur - race pace reps or 200s/hills and weight lifting after with plyos
Fri - very easy
Sat - long run followed by core and “extra stuff”
Sun - off normally cross train on the bike for 3 hours or hike in the country with the family.
Any advice to tweak this? I wondered if it was better to do the first heavy session on Tuesday not Monday? But then there is 3 days of plyometric stuff in the week.
Also, with two separate sessions of weightlifting and plyos any advice on how you’d split those two sessions? Many thanks. I’d love hear your input.
I think the plan looks good, speed development Monday coming after a long run then day off is perfect. Following it up with a tempo would be my move as well; usually those can be done well after speed or even a lift even if you're sore. We would be more likely to switch Thursday and Friday. Long runs for most middle-distance runners are still a pretty easy day so it gives you two easier days after your big workouts on Tuesday and, in this case, Friday. But I know of programs more successful than mine that have have a workout scheme similar to you.
With Tuesday/Friday workouts we also have some faster element Monday/Thursday to prime the next day's workout and give us some faster running when we're pretty fresh. One day is usually speed dev. and the other is usually something closer to strides.
I wouldn't change much with the lifting, I think the days you have make sense.
When we lift we do total body every time; unless you're lifting 3-4 times a week it doesn't make sense to me to do a particular "split" in the weight room. Here's what I've landed on for lifting 90% of the time:
1. Explosive lower body (plyometrics, weighted jumps, olympics)
2. Squat movement
3. Hinge movement
4. Pressing movement
5. Pulling movement
6. Single leg (Skater squats, SL RDL, box step-ups, etc.)
7. Rotation/anti-rotation (medballs are great here, but anything that engages the core dynamically)
Unless it's a really big group all at once, we will never be in the weight room for more than 30-45 minutes. If you can't get a good workout in that time you really need to evaluate it you're just adding "stuff" to make athletes tired.
As a season progresses and we have more meets going on we will combine a lot of those to make the session shorter and more efficient. A Push Press can cover 1 & 4 in one movement. Bulgarian Split Squats can be 2 & 6 in one lift. Late season lifts are probably 20-30 minute sessions with a lot more emphasis on lifting heavy, and with power, and probably a whole lot of recovery modalities.
Also, we do very little plyometrics. Generally just one exercise at the start of each lift and maybe something after a run here and there. They are great, but if we're not extremely careful we will always have someone with shin splints after starting them. I don't like the risk reward beyond what could at best be called micro-dosing them.
V wrote:
Also, we do very little plyometrics. Generally just one exercise at the start of each lift and maybe something after a run here and there. They are great, but if we're not extremely careful we will always have someone with shin splints after starting them. I don't like the risk reward beyond what could at best be called micro-dosing them.
I often wonder what the best speed for distance runners program is. If all you care about speed, then there are numerous sprint systems that you can use that have been shown to work. But if you are a 5k runner looking to be faster, do you want to be doing a strength program that will add 5lbs of upper body muscle and then do some plyometric workout that takes 2 days to recover from? Or do you want a program that will make you say 1s faster over 400m instead of 2s but that lets you keep on training on your more event specific needs? Is working on top end sprint form worth it or are you better off working running faster with more like 800m form?