ex-runner wrote:
ISBN wrote:
How many times did Ryun or Snell break 1:46? About 2 each. Does that preclude them from being all time great 2 lap runners? No.
Unlike Amos, Snell won Olympic gold (twice) and Ryun broke the 880yd WR. Snell is certainly above Amos, as is Coe and Cruz and several others.
When Coe ran under 1:43 twice, it was twice as much as all the rest of the world's 2 lap runners had ever broken 1:43. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but comparing the scene in 1980 (amateur, with a limited European circuit and numerous obligations to run in international matches) against a professional circuit with vast amounts of money and numerous pacers at practically every meet, is not a fair comparison. Most of the sub 1:43's occurred when Kipketer was aiming (on a fairly regular basis) to break Coe's WR from 95 onwards, and in the decade that proceeded in the height of the EPO era.
Coe won medals at practically every championship final or major meet he competed in from the European Indoor gold in 77 to the European Champs gold in 86, including 2 Olympic silvers, a World Cup gold and 2 European Cup golds. Amos has a Commonwealth medal and an Olympic silver, despite almost double the opportunities of winning medals that Coe had.
Personally I've never considered world records that important. They are fun and impressive to watch sometimes, but they aren't that important for the sport. Often run in low pressure environments where athletes can let loose.
What matters is head to heads, winning real races and executing a championships. That's what makes a great runner.
Coe was an all time great 1500m runner. Twice Olympic gold. One European Gold, Silver, Bronze. But at the 800m he ran a good couple of time trials. That's not the same.
Snell is an all time 800m great. Ryun, is not.
Amos beat Rudisha for Commonwealth gold. He is 3x African champion (extremely difficult compared to Europeans) and has an Olympic silver medal.
I think his career is still inferior to Coe for now, but if he gets that Olympic gold next year and then a world championship gold, it will be far superior.
World records and Olympic medals (preferably gold) are the pinnacle for any athlete. Coe has 2 WRS and 2 Olympic silvers for 800m. Amos has no WRs and 1 silver.
No 1 rankings and total ranking points (longevity) over a career are also important. Amos is not finished yet, so we can't read too much into that, but so far only Rudisha and Kipketer have accrued more ranking points over 800m than Coe.
If Amos becomes World Champion it is not really relevant in a comparison to Coe, because it is not a level playing field. Coe was capable of appearing in only 2 World Champs during his career, and was unable to participate in either. It could be argued that the inaugural World Champs in 83 was already after Coe's best years. By the time Amos reaches 30, he would already have been eligible to have competed in 7 World Champs outdoors and a similar number indoors. Of course he will get more medals in the World with that many opportunities to do so! Does 1 gold offset the numerous occasions when he failed to even reach the final in other editions of Worlds?
If we are looking at record in major Champs/events, then Coe has achieved medals in 9 800m races out of the 11 finals he contested. The only times he failed to win a medal at 800m was in the 77 European Cup, when he was set for a medal and then barged sideways in the home straight by Wullbeck, and his last race at the 90 Commonwealth Games, when he ran with a chest infection. Amos has failed to reach the final of a major event more times than Coe failed to medal.