Sub 20 minute 5K at 50 years old?

I don't want to come across as an a$$hole, but you are assuming how much volume he needs out of the gate.

I cannot endorse this assumption.

One should err on the side of more volume (within reason) and a careful progression.

Getting up to seven to 10 hours a week eventually for everyone who is looking to do their best from 800m to short ultras is the best way to go....for the vast majority. If he has some unearthly talent, that requires minimal volume, then that will show up quickly.

Hey everyone,

Thanks to everyone for responding. Lots of great (and varying) responses here. I kind of ignored this thread after that one guy took a dump on my goal. I don't need that, but to everyone else, thanks again. I've never been a talented runner, just a hobby jogger, so I don't understand why people insist on making value judgments on my (lack of) speed or age-graded (in)abilities.

At any rate, lots of interesting ideas, mostly coalescing around ... "be smart, stay healthy, stay in touch with speed, run as much as you can, primarily sub-lactate, without getting injured." I think that's my high-level plan.

To address some things ...

I agree that I think I could get to sub-20 in about 4-6 months as well, but the goal is not "run a sub-20 at 49", it's "run a sub-20 at 50", which is 12 months away. So I need to gain sub-20 fitness and stay there, or slow play it for a year then go for it when I turn 50. The goal is just a way to keep me disciplined and motivated for longer than a few months.

The achilles thing I've been battling for a decade. It's a large reason why I stopped at 39. I think I've gotten pretty good at managing it, and most days I don't notice it, although I do eccentric exercises, etc for it every day. Knock on wood I can keep on top of it.

It's weird how strong the pull is to go do interval workouts and time trials, "just to see where I'm at." I'm constantly tempted to go bang out 400s/800s on the track, or run a time trial every week, but so far I've resisted. Maybe once a month?

If anyone is interested, Sunday I took off, Monday did 6 miles with a 4 mile tempo 30 seconds slower than current 5k pace, 6 miles easy yesterday, 14 mile bike ride today. Tomorrow probably a fartlek, Friday easy, Saturday 60-90 minute run, Sunday off or easy. That's also my general weekly plan for the next month or two.

Thanks again for all the input. I can't remember if anyone had specific questions, but if so I'll try to reply, and keep this updated with my progress.

Josheli wrote:

It's weird how strong the pull is to go do interval workouts and time trials, "just to see where I'm at.”

I just totally gave in to the dark side, and it was very satisfying.?

Good stuff.

Testing your fitness during a base phase is tough not to do. I had this convo with a guy last night.

If you are strict about the base phase, you won't truly test fitness. Although if you are VERY disciplined, a one-off 5K at race effort save for a final sprint once-per month should not be a problem, certainly better than going out and smashing a 400m x 10 workout or something.

One thing to keep in mind is if you do a 5K, it takes a few time trials and or races sometimes to really "hit it", so you still won't truly know your fitness.

So, I'd suggest going as fast as you can go for 60 minutes without too severe a strain effort. Then you can use a calculator to figure out what your 5K value is. If you can do it by feel, even better.

An out and back run done weekly is a great idea.....I think I may have mentioned this....same effort every week over same course, 30-out and whatever return to the same spot. Great stimulus and a bit of a measuring stick without cannibalizing the aerobic system.

Fartleks are great if done by feel, to stay in touch with speed.

Enjoy the process.

Ha ha, but what if it was an off-day? That would have sucked!!

There was never an off day because it was increasingly long intervals at 20-min pace. I considered every one of them a TT, that way I looked forward to every single workout. I also did 40-min runs, or longer, after these TT’s.

Update: Ran a solo 5K time trial on the track the morning of my 49th birthday the other day in 20:53.

I kind of abandoned my original training plan discussed here after a disastrous time trial in July where I bailed after two miles. After that fiasco, I felt like I was stagnating and needed more structure, so I used a 22 min 5K plan I found online and tweaked it a little. It was very standard stuff, Tuesday/Thursday track workouts of 100s/800s/400s, some fartleks and hills, and a weekly "long run". But I thought it worked very well for me. Averaged about 35 miles / week over a couple of months and noticed I was hitting times that suggested I could run sub-21, so I decided to celebrate my birthday with a little solo suffer-fest. I successfully hit that goal, then got drunk.

So I have a year to not lose fitness and drop another minute off my time. Not sure what is next. I'm thinking I may try to lower my mile time, mostly just to switch up the training a little bit. Winter is usually a tough training stretch for me with the cold and dark and holidays and food and snowboarding, so I hope I don't lose too much fitness.

Run with joy ;)

I'll definitely try to contact you directly! Even 3 years after your post! I'm 58 and stuck in my "comeback" and I have questions!

Well, I finally did it. 19:40 at age 51 this last weekend. I think I was fit enough to do it a couple of times previously, but I either got injured or sick or life got in the way. So after my latest setback my mantra was "strike while the iron is hot".

At the beginning of this thread I was just pulling generic plans off the web or asking random people on the internet. I did a lot of track work and V02max stuff. Kind of dreaded it. That got me to 20:53 but i stagnated, got burned out, then got hurt (calf). Would not recommend.

After healing from that I tried the Easy Interval Method. I actually liked that method, looked forward to the workouts, but if you follow the plan rigorously it's not so "easy", so I cut it down to easy intervals every other day or every third day. That got me to 20:31, but then I got Covid. As I said, I liked EIM (modified), and I think I could have gone sub-20 had I not gotten Covid. Would recommend.

After Covid I kind of just started running with no plan, averaged about 30 mpw, didn't really think about my goal, ran a 68 minute 15K. But then I strained my hamstring again.

So after that, I got a PT and an online coach. Both helped me run a 1:32 half this past January. Again, I think I was on my way to sub-20, but I actually strained my hamstring AGAIN at the end of the half. F me!

At this point, I'm really sick of getting injured. One of the BroJos wrote something around this time like "distance running is threshold running". And some guy on Reddit points out that, mostly, recreational runners just need to improve their aerobic base. So I decide to prioritize my health and just do two things:

1) Strength/PT twice a week
2) Only run threshold or easy

Starting in February of this year this was my weekly schedule:

Monday: 4-7 miles Easy
Tuesday 5-7x3:00 minute threshold w/ 90s jog rest + strength/PT
Wednesday: 4-7 miles Easy
Thursday: 4-7 miles Easy
Friday: Off or 4-7 miles Easy
Saturday: 10 miles with some threshold work usually just a progression run + strength/PT
Sunday: Off or 4-7 easy

I've averaged 25 mpw since Feb 1 and have only done the 3 minute threshold intervals, some fast-finish long runs, a few trail runs, and one parkrun 5K. Everything else has been easy (Zone 2 or below). I do 95% of my runs on crushed granite trails. I also lost 10lbs during this time without specifically trying to lose weight.

As the weeks went on I noticed my 3 minute intervals steadily got faster, until a couple weeks ago I was up at 8000 ft and averaged 6:30 pace for 7 intervals while my heart rate stayed pretty low. A few days later I did a 10 mile run at 11,000 feet and felt strong. I live at altitude and thought I would need to go to sea level for sub-20, but I knew I was fit and ready so I looked for a fast race near me because you gotta strike while the iron is hot, right?

Looking back, I have the following takeaways:

1) Stay healthy
2) Threshold and easy aerobic is enough for recreational running (see #1)
3) Stay healthy

Here's my full 5K progression since the start of this thread:

Date Time
7/29/23 19:40
7/1/23 20:43
10/21/22 21:50
2/5/22 21:03
11/26/21 20:31
11/7/21 21:28
10/17/21 21:59
6/22/21 22:35
1/26/21 23:20
9/24/20 20:53
5/26/20 23:03

Nice! If most people would concentrate on the basics and consistent training instead of trying to find the perfect workout, they'd be a lot faster and enjoy the process more.

Congrats!

I see you tried EIM. I ran 19:49 for 5k last year at 65 off EIM. Like you I adjusted for age. In a good week I could get 4 EIM sessions (or 3 and some hill sprints) alternating with recovery jogs of 3 or 4 miles at 8:00-8:30 pace.

I find EIM suits me. As 50+ year track runner, I love doing intervals and don't enjoy long steady runs.

It looks like you are nearer the aerobic monster type. Looking at the best times you posted, I was close to 2 minutes quicker at 5k, and 3 minutes at 10k, but the best of my two marathon runs (age 38) was about the same. I was definitely distance challenged!

I'm completely envious of these 50+ times. I'm 58 and returned to running last year after a 38 year layoff. Started at a 26:00 5K that got down to 22:00 by the end of last year. This year I've gotten down to 21:15, but for the most part have been stuck at 22:20 on reasonably hilly runs. I know I'll never be a 15:30 guy again, but is breaking 21:00 too much to ask :)

I'm up to 25-30 mpw with one interval workout of 1000 repeats. I just started running my long run with a group of guys who are all faster than me, so I'm hoping that gets me off my 8:30-9:00 pace I run half the week.

Congrats, OP! Love the follow-up. So many journeys start on LR threads and we never see where they end up.

Everyone's different, of course, but I do the majority of my runs around 9:00 pace. That plus basic threshold intervals once a week and a moderately hard 90 minute run is all you need, I think. Just stay consistent and healthy and hopefully your times slowly go down as your fitness goes up.

Thanks. Wow, 19:49 at 65 is pretty impressive! Not sure I'll be able to do that, but it's a good goal to keep in mind. You're fast though, I've never been fast, just pretty good at running at threshold.

I really liked EIM, but, man, trying to run 6x1K 5 times a week was tough mentally and physically.

Thanks! It's scary to put yourself out there, but it can be motivating. I had this thread in mind for three years, haha.

Congratulations!

Some questions:

Your weekly schedule looks a lot more than 25 mpw? Did you have down weeks or something else?

How easy were your easy runs? Hr %, pace compared to 5k pace etc?

You did nothing faster than threshold, not even strides?

What did your strength trg look like?

Was your 5k pb, a race, parkrun, or a TT?

You appeared to like the EIM. Would you recommend this to others? Would you return to EIM for further progress, as threshold is not generally the way to 5k success.

Thanks!

- Yeah, my hamstring injury from January nagged me, so I had some down weeks. At any sign of injury I would take a day or two off. Weekly mileage Feb-July: 28, 26, 30, 3, 13, 24, 5, 15, 16, 17, 15, 22, 17, 26, 27, 12, 26, 35, 28, 32, 36, 30, 40, 35, 30, 26.

- Easy runs were pretty easy, usually 70-80% max HR, sometimes lower. I tried never to go above Zone 2. According to Garmin stats, my pace in February averaged 9:30/mile, March/April/May averaged 9:00/mile, June/July 8:30/mile. A random easy run from March was 9:43 pace at 74% max HR. Easy run this morning was 8:49/mi at 72% max.

- I think I did strides (maybe 3x20s) twice at the end of a threshold workout.

- Strength/PT was pretty basic: 30-45 minutes twice a week of eccentric calf raises, hamstring bridges/isometrics, one-legged deadlifts, some dumbells (curls, overhead press, lunges, etc), a pull up bar, core work (planks, crunches, leg lifts, etc).

- 5k pb was a race. I finished 60ish overall so I had people to chase.

- Yeah, I liked EIM, and I'll probably incorporate some modified version of it if/when the threshold stuff stagnates or gets boring. I like that you run kind of fast a lot, but not too fast. I usually cut down the reps (e.g. 4x1k instead of 6x1k or 6x400 instead of 10x400), and my days would like: 2Ks, easy, 1Ks, easy, 400s, easy, 200s, easy, 2Ks, easy, 1Ks, etc.