Is anyone “poor” and happy?

$35K per year is far from poor.

The US Federal Poverty Level for a single person is $12,490 per year (2019-2020 figure).

So $35k/year is almost three times greater than that.

I have never made more than $24k per year, have never had any public assistance, never had an inheritance or rich spouse, never won the lottery.

Our family is considered to be living in poverty, but we are very happy. So yes poor and very happy.

I saved money and bought the house I live in. Am 100% debt free now.

Have averaged over 60 miles per week running for 50 years. Achieved regional/national level success in running and still run and enjoy it.

Graduated from a nationally recognized private college with a double major in the sciences and 3.8 of 4 GPA. Enjoyed the time in college, and was not there just for the education. Never really used the degree for work, but used the critical thinking and other skills to obtain jobs.

Its not how much money you make, its how much you spend. Life is not about accumulating material things, its about having positive experiences.

Like a hard interval workout, there should be difficult and stressful times. Getting through those can lead to the appreciation of satisfying positive experiences in the future

Yes I totally agree that $35K is not poor. Many on this site and in society will say otherwise, and I wanted multiple perspectives. If you live frugally, as a minimalist, or even with intention (being smart with what you spend on) then $35K is a great amount of money for most people.

Also, does anyone agree with the opinion that the overwhelming majority of classes are unproductive, and not worth the time? It’s the degree that is arguably worth the time, not the actions taken to get it. At least that’s how I feel. Maybe it’s different for engineers and such but medicine/biology has so far in my three years consisted of stuff I can read in a book (and have) ad well as material from high school. Don’t even get me started on classes like speech, sociology, etc.

It depends on what you mean by poor? Are you fed and have clean drinking water? Do you have clothing and shelter that is weather appropriate. If no to any of that than no you can’t be poor and happy. However you can be very content with life and have all those basic needs met. Actually in some ways it’s freeing to have less.

I personally dream of living in a camper van out in the wilderness with just the basics. Nature provides all the entertainment and pleasures I need.

ChadBrad wrote:

do the math wrote:

Conversely, go talk to some overstressed corporate climbers in management, see how happy they are.

I'm not sure I've met someone trying to aggressively climb the corporate ladder who is also happy, or even ended up happy. Not one.

Gotta find that balance.

By your logic a world class runner shouldn’t push himself to be a Olympic champion. Too much hard work and competition! Just chill bro, find that balance between great and nothing. Think it’s called being mediocre. And if that’s cool for you, then it’s allllll good....

I think almost every corporate CEO or Olympian in the US has sacrificed happiness relative to just living a humble life that follows their true passions. Sure, you might have a few people who are truly doing what they want, and are happier than they'd be as an average Joe. But I think the US has gotten so competitive in certain areas, that the only way to reach the top is to sacrifice everyday happiness in pursuit of a single moment or achievement. The key is convincing yourself it'll all be worth it until you get there.

I make 24k a year and am happy.

I don't think you realize though how easy school is. Suck it up, go to your classes for 8 months out of the year, pay somewhat attention, get a 3.5, get it done, do whatever you want after.

I'm a grad student in a high cost of living area making about $30k from my stipend. I pay about $900 per month in rent, and other than food, and climbing gym membership (RIP) I don't really spend much. I probably put away about $800/mo into a savings acct. So yeah, you can certainly live comfortably and then some on $35k as long as you don't have any dependents.

The smartest thing to do is to look at how others who were successful did it.

Exhibit A) Frank Shorter. Frank trained his tail off while going to graduate school. The student/athlete lifestyle is actually the best if you can afford it. Don't know how Frank financed it but his father was a doctor so maybe he could keep studying and defer working with help from his family.

B) Steve Prefontaine. We'll never know how Pre would have done it in his post collegiate years because he died while still in college. But again, the college situation was excellent for Pre and having a former Olympian, Dellinger, as his coach was a big plus. He may have gotten big time help from Nike as he was the local star with a lot of charisma and Nike was just beginning its tremendous corporate success.

C) Marty Liquori became a world champion and was someone who had to work to support himself while his running and business career flourished. Most people could not do it like that but Marty did. Most runners who try it this way get tired and frustrated and fall by the wayside.

So, to answer your question: the student/athlete lifestyle is probably best but eventually a runner has to graduate. The better NCAA performers will usually get an offer to go semi-pro where they run for an elite shoe sponsored club. What if you don't make the grade by then?

Yeah, you could live cheap and run your chops off but give yourself a dead line. That would be going for it all out ---until the next Olympics as our sport still revolves around that 4 year cycle. I say give yourself that time because after the cycle is complete it is time to re-evaluate --- did you make the Olympics? Did you progress enough to become one of the few pros who earn good money in order to keep yourself going.

And if you didn't make the big time ---- it is up to you. Do you want to delay starting a career and family and keep living cheap or do you want to try the full time job/ runner route. It's a free country. You get to decide. Make your own decisions --- don't let anyone lay a guilt trip on you.

Oh, one other possible plan. Marry a rich girl who encourages you to keep training all you want.

fine by me wrote:

Thinking about dropping out of college despite having a full ride because the education is not worth the time investment

Wow I love your short-term thinking. Rock on, brudda.

DanM wrote:

Solidly middle class. Wife and I don't understand why the US Govt is treating us like we are poor by giving us a debt financed $2400 "stimulus" payment. That money will buy us beer, wine, whiskey, pizza, chocolate, cheez-its.

The government should give vouchers for food from your local grocery store which helps their business in addition to you feeding your family.....some money spent on beer and wine pizza, etc...are good but to hand drug people cash money is wrong.....

Yes, I live below the poverty line in Canada and am reasonably happy.

Have my own place. Nice apartment. Decent area of town.

Relative to many people in the world, I live a first class lifestyle.

It's all relative and you'll always spend what you have.

My wife and I got married very young and while students our first year married we qualified for food stamps and together made less than 18k that year. We were happy, life was good.

From there we went on to live in Chicago, NYC, LA and for 10 years my income never fell below 150k and is now averaging a bit over 250k/year. We're still happy and life is good.

We are not wealthy by any means but I can comfortably purchase most anything I want without stressing it (within reason). While that is a luxury we're no happier than when we lived off less than 18k, so take that for what it's worth.

What do you do for a living? And how big is your house and how much is it worth?

You say, we. How many kids and how will they go to college?

fine by me wrote:

Also, does anyone agree with the opinion that the overwhelming majority of classes are unproductive, and not worth the time? It’s the degree that is arguably worth the time, not the actions taken to get it. At least that’s how I feel. Maybe it’s different for engineers and such but medicine/biology has so far in my three years consisted of stuff I can read in a book (and have) ad well as material from high school. Don’t even get me started on classes like speech, sociology, etc.

You just described life. High school was no different, and if you ever decided to go to grad school, you'd find that you were mostly consumed by meaningless and tedious tasks there as well, trust me. Unfortunately that's the system we all live in, but it is worth it to have a degree, at least to fall back on if need be. Seriously, I hated school and I don't want to sound like a broken record boomer, but college is SO EASY. Just stay and enjoy the time, because if you do end up using your degree and get a job, you'll find that it feels even more tedious than the situation you're in now lol.

fine by me wrote:

Thinking about dropping out of college despite having a full ride because the education is not worth the time investment, and I can train for running by myself. Does anyone here have experience with living in a very modest home/apartment, being single, not having a ton of material items, and making a small amount of money due to not working many hours? I could see myself living off $35K or less, but I live in a small state and that is probably pocket change for people in cali, NY, etc.

This posts reeks of rationalization or is a troll.

I wrote this on April 6, 2008 (age 33).

By May 20, 2016 (age 41) I achieved it.

Thee power of writing things down and visualizing it and working towards the goal diligently . . . is simply amazing.

Top 11 Reasons why I will be a Millionaire

• I have an excellent education and a secure well paying career

• I have, in addition, an online business that generates an excellent extra income

• I am committed to saving and investing regularly

• I continue to read about business, investing and financial planning

• I do accumulate assets of appreciating value

• I do not accumulate liabilities of depreciating value

• I will aggressively pay off my mortgage

• I keep my bills to a minimum

• I drive a very affordable car, that is paid off and is good on gas

• I do make friends with people who have money and influence

• I do not make friends with people who put themselves into financial despair

Good stuff. I have written down certain things like this numerous times.

I never have kept the writings though I may have a few files on my computer if I searched for them.

To respond to what you said:

• I have an excellent education and a secure well paying career

I have the education necessary to achieve my goal.

• I have, in addition, an online business that generates an excellent extra income

I am interested in outside business opportunities, to a degree.

• I am committed to saving and investing regularly

I save as much as I can and try to invest when I have confidence in the markets.

• I continue to read about business, investing and financial planning

I read things of general interest which interest me. Not necessarily business oriented, though at times, perhaps.

• I do accumulate assets of appreciating value

I am aware it's important to buy things which can hold their value and intend to do this.

• I do not accumulate liabilities of depreciating value

I try also to do this.

• I will aggressively pay off my mortgage

Doesn't apply to me right now.

• I keep my bills to a minimum

Cell phone bill is very small, actually about $10 this month. Then I pay power, cable/internet, groceries, laundry. That's it.

• I drive a very affordable car, that is paid off and is good on gas

I walk or use public transit.

• I do make friends with people who have money and influence

I am aware people have different strengths and expeirences. I try not to discriminate against people though I believe I would be less likely to become friends with someone who's interests were quite different than mine.

• I do not make friends with people who put themselves into financial despair[/quote]

I actually care about someone who is in a worse financial position than me. I cannot agree fully with you here, but, to each there own. If I talk to this person I try to be supportive if the subject of finances comes up. I also wouldn't intertwine our finances.

fine by me wrote:

Thinking about dropping out of college despite having a full ride because the education is not worth the time investment, and I can train for running by myself. Does anyone here have experience with living in a very modest home/apartment, being single, not having a ton of material items, and making a small amount of money due to not working many hours? I could see myself living off $35K or less, but I live in a small state and that is probably pocket change for people in cali, NY, etc.

Hey man, I know quarantine might have you down, but knowledge is really useful going forward in life. I know it's tough and it might not seem like an investment, but there could be somethings your professors say to you that resonates with you for the rest of your life.

Money comes and goes... It's certainly not happiness, but knowledge and life philosophies (moral fiber... etc.)... That stays forever.

Enjoy this part of your life, challenge yourself in the classroom and at running and I promise good things will come. Don't give up. When you set out for college, I'm sure you accepted going to that school with the goal of graduating and seeing it through. Finish what you started! Best of luck to you and enjoy your time in college !

-Patrick

Awesome post Greg. I agree with 99% of what you are saying.

I wanted to add a few more points, because my original list actually had 14 items. But the last three I left out here because I don't want to offend anyone.

But just in case you are wondering they had to do with - never following a religion, never having kids and never getting married.