Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Russia proving that they’re unable to strike actual military targets decides to commit more war crimes and strike civilian targets and you blame Ukraine. Do you blame Ukraine for the fact that you still live in your mommy’s basement?

Yes.

The Russians got smoked by Nazi Germany and Bonaparte's France when winter arrived

Those were Soviets, not Russians.

The truth has never been Unkle Carmines strongest point.

You neatly excuse hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths as being "principled" as long as it's us doing it.

Wailing mothers scooping up body parts of their children might not appreciate your blithe rationalization.

And this is rich.

In this thread, I've often posted facts critical and non-complimentary to Russian stances.

You cannot say the same, conversely.

You've transparently demonstrated yourself as a frothing Russophobe, often calling for a celebrating violence. In this long thread I cannot recall you posting a single critical fact regarding Ukraine, nor conceding even clear, contrary fact.

Frothing Russophobe repeatedly

Yet you lecture on morality and objectivity.

Take a long look in the mirror - assuming you have a reflection.

Inciteful analysis.

But there has been conflict in the Ukraine for the last 9 winters, so perhaps Russian forces won't pack up at the first sign of snow, after all. Just a thought.

To be fair, they did and do for Trump, too. "Proud Boys, Stand By"

No shortage of extremist nut jobs - some are in this thread.

Just thinking they could just roll into Ukraine and in three weeks there are Russian flags waving, tells us just how out of touch with reality those people are. Right now the soldiers of their weak army are giving up, many are just walking away, some are surrending. This is over and it's a shame Putin is so far gone he can't see it.

All that was accomplished is 800 miles of NATO on that Russian border.

Another truth-stretching propaganda installment, this time from the Ukraine side and their talking parrots.

Headline reads "Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant worker dies from Russian shelling"

Let's have a conversation about this Pulitzer-worthy piece:

"The NP plant was shelled by Russians?! What are they thinking, risking nuclear catastrophe!

Wait? The NP plant has been under Russian control for 5 months? And it wasn't shelled?

OK, so the shelling was in Enerhodar, about 4.5 km away from the plant?

Wait? Enerhodar has also been under Russian control for 5 months with no Ukraine remotely forces nearby? Then how could Ukraine shell it?

Oh, so you say Russian and Ukraine forces are trading artillery rounds across the Dnipro river, with the Ukraine holding the North and the Russians holding the South?

So, Russians must have turned their artillery completely away from the opposing forces to the North and chose to shell East towards territory they hold. Could happen.

How do we know this is true?

Because 'Ukraine’s state nuclear generating company said' so!

Let me find the Press Release. Uh, hold on. There is none. It was someone posting on a Telegram chat group. Looks like it's a closed group, because the post isn't provided or quoted directly.

Anyway, it as an Official Statement from the Plant. Good enough for me.

Wait... the Telegram post was from a mechanic.

Nevermind..."

cnbc.com

Ukraine calls for more weapons and sanctions on Russia; UN says nearly 18 million people need aid

https://www.facebook.com/CNBC

The U.S. issued a warning of increased Russian strikes on Ukrainian infrastructure during the week ahead of its independence day on Aug. 24.

Link:www.cnbc.com/2022/08/23/russia-ukraine...

In 1812?

Wow.

German Nazis in 1812?

Wow.

The point of this post is to ridicule those who note hypocrisy. Particularly those citing hypocrisy which weakens a polarized view of NATO and Ukraine actions as unassailably "Holy".

True, many things are more important than calling out BS. Like doing the "right" thing.

But there is nothing about doing Good which reasonably requires we turn a blind eye to hypocrisy and (selective) facts.

When the Preacher rails against infidelity, but is sleeping with half the choir, and then ostracizes a congregation member accused of cheating -- well, you have to call in to question equanimity and validity of the moral basis he's relied upon.

Most in this thread rightly take issue with civilian deaths and war crimes caused by Russia.

But if these things are clearly wrong, that should not depend on perspective. Civilian deaths and war crimes conducted by us and others are also wrong - and should also be recognized.

It is not consistent to demonize Russia for their part in 5,000 Ukraine civilian casualties, when America has killed well over a million civilians in wars in living memory.

To condemn one and excuse the other is to display plain bias and/or cognitive distortion.

One of them was The Russian Empire (aka Imperial Russia), the other was the Soviets. Neither was The Russian Federation that exists today.

As captain of the debate team in high school, I’m sure you know that appeals to hypocrisy are a common logical fallacy. Fortunately, there’s no logical need to be consistent. We are free to demonize Russian atrocities while blissfully supporting American ones. It doesn’t make Russia’s actions any less repugnant and worthy of condemnation. Nor does it change the fact that Ukraine’s very existence hinges on the death of many Russians, and if Putin doesn’t care enough about his soldiers’ lives to order their withdrawal, then who am I to give a damn if they end up dead in a ditch?

Another comical fabrication, this time from the Russian side and their talking monkeys.

To believe the F.S.B. when they accuse someone else of trying to (or actually) carrying out an assassination in Russia, you also have to believe that Russia's security services are completely incompetent.

You're ranting off topic. And hypocritical.

Why does a successful assassination require that Security Services are "completely incompetent"?

Across the globe and across time, there is a very long list of high-profile assassinations. Surely not all were preventable with more competent security.

Darya Dugina was not a notable figure with a large 24x7 security detail.

Nor any assigned detail, it seems.

No one was sweeping a car every time she got in one.

Both Ukraine and Russian spokespersons have made many ridiculous and dis-proven claims.

So one cannot accept either Ukraine or Russian claims at face value based on an impeccable record for completeness and accuracy.

Two theories being floated by the Ukraine side are that (1) Putin ordered a hit in a false-flag operation. Or if not that, then (2) some previously-unknown Russian dissident faction carried out the bombing.

There is nothing whatsoever to suggest either is true. Just wild theories. Without substantiation, both strain belief.

However, the Russian side has been very specific in their allegations and has provided documents, photos, and video to support those claims:

* Natalia (Shaban) Vovk, age 43, is named as the assassin, and she:

* Is from Mariupol and a former member of Azov Battalion. Military ID with Vovk's picture supports that claim.

* Dyed her hair to change her appearance. Different colours are shown in images provided.

* Drove a Mini Cooper. The car changed plates many times, including plates from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, and Russia. Images and videos provided show this.

* Deleted all social media profiles and content.

* Attended the same cultural festival as Dugina prior to the bombing.

* Stayed in the same apartment building as Dugina.

* Left for Estonia Immediately after the bombing.

There are always going to be conspiracy theorists who believe the moon landing was faked, that the CIA took out Kennedy with a second shooter on the grassy knoll... and that Russia is consistently blowing up their own infrastructure, bombing their own territory, and assassinating its public officials and citizens.

You can't reason with unreasonable people.