Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

1000 repeats or Mike repeats? I see lots of people saying they do 1000 repeats, but not too many doing mike repeats as workouts for the marathon? Is it a preference or is there actually something to the 1000 repeats.

Northener wrote:

runnerchef wrote:

Good plan and great goal - we have very similar goals and approaches - 2020 for me will be a focus on the HM as well. Plan on continuing to be "unstructured" through the end of November and then ramp back up for a February 22nd HM. The goal time there is 1:18 and hope to end 2020 with a 1:16 effort. We will see!

Sounds like a good plan! My secret plan and dream is to once in my lifetime hit 1.19.59.. I've always been stronger at marathon than the half. When doing 2.48 5yrs back I'm sure I could do 1.19, but didn't capitalize on that back then unfortunately. The dream still lives!

Seems like a lot of us are graduating to some fun HM goals. Nothing really has the ring of sub-3 though. I think I will go after sub 1:20 (sub-1:21 gets NYC Marathon qualification)...but doesn't hit the same way.

In Turkey Trot prep, after a pretty easy tempo progression last week on the treadmill (3.3 miles ~ going from 6:40 pace down to 6:18 pace ~ probably overall 6:30ish average) I got outside yesterday for my first speed with 11x 1' on, 1' off fartlek on the outer central park loop (minus the big hill on the back section. For the ~3.4 mile segment I averaged around 6:30 pace (encouraged that I almost hit the tempo pace in a vastly harder way on a rolling course). I would guess my 1 minute on were at 3K pace or so ~ they were quick. 1minute on jogs probably started at 8:30 pace and by the end was slogging along. My last two on segments were hurting, but in a good way. Most importantly the knee didn't act up. Am thinking sub-18 might be be doable and given previous winning times...Turkey Trot glory is possible.

Turkey Trot glory is so important for morale and family pride! Are you practicing your IPA or dark-lager intake? Equally important during these times! hah!

IPA all the way. Knowing the fiancee's family there will be mostly good wine and West Coast IPAs available.

I haven't raced an open HM, but it sounds like I need to get on the bandwagon for spring!

epg0 wrote:

I haven't raced an open HM, but it sounds like I need to get on the bandwagon for spring!

change the thread to Sub 1:20 spring HM thread!

runnerchef wrote:

epg0 wrote:

I haven't raced an open HM, but it sounds like I need to get on the bandwagon for spring!

change the thread to Sub 1:20 spring HM thread!

That's a great idea! Fix us a thread! And we can compare training etc. This thread had been great and a lot of nice people have chipped in. Would be fun to follow the struggles for a spring half.

any idea where i might find a calculator of sorts that can tell me how my training should be when attempting to be more of a "low 2.50's guy" as opposed to a "2.59.59 guy"?

I'm new here and have really enjoyed reading thru this thread; so much support and kindness and it's so (sadly) rare. i'm in my first week of Pfitz 18/70, targeting the WIlmington, NC marathon in late march 2020. this is my first time following any sort of plan other than piecing it together myself; hit a 3.08 in chicago last year and found it was a wasted opportunity - was well-trained but ran far too conservatively, and had way too much in the tank at the end.

aiming to trim 5 minutes or so off of that by march, and then nail the amateur glory of sub-3 in chicago in the fall. thanks for having me around these parts.

themadnessofthecrowd wrote:

any idea where i might find a calculator of sorts that can tell me how my training should be when attempting to be more of a "low 2.50's guy" as opposed to a "2.59.59 guy"?

Hmm. Either you get Daniels book or check in Pfiz book (dunno if he has paces in the book). Online, you can find Daniels paces here:

Just paste your time and look at the training sheet. That should give you an estimation. Another one is McMillans calculator:

there you have to add your email in order to access. I like daniels tables. They give you an estimate for threshold, Interval etc. I try to stay around those paces, but not hit it exactly.

Good luck for your marathon!

Well hop on board!

Good suggestions above - I find the Mcmillian calculator to be pretty good - I would err on the side of caution on the marathon estimates (It is based on a flat, perfect course, etc.) for example, I finished 4 minutes slower in my marathon vs. the prediction

Ran another park run, clocked in at 18:40 this time; 17 second pb.

On track for 58k this week and planning to aim to be around 65k next week.

Making progress. If my 5k progression continues I’ll be join you all for a spring half (might be gunning for 1:24, rather than 1:20 though)

Training for week ending 11/17

Stats: 34M/6'2"/180 lbs/Running since June

Goal Race: Hyannis Marathon on 2/23/2020

Goal Time: Thinking sub-3 but will refine goal in January

Training Plan: Daniels 2Q/VDOT 56

Monday 11/11: 10E. Avg. 8:02. Felt surprisingly good. Took a few miles to get going but was definitely able to work out some kinks.

Tuesday 11/12: 8E. Avg. 7:30. Felt good. Need to watch left hamstring.

Wednesday 11/13: Q2- 16E. Avg. 7:55. 5 degrees with windchill. Felt absolutely horrible. I think this was a combo of cold and just not being fully recovered from the HM. I was also overdressed.

Thursday 11/14: 8E. Avg. 7:23. Felt good.

Friday 11/15: 10E. Avg. 7:19. Felt good. Need to focus on diet. Lunch yesterday was 6 pieces of pizza.

Saturday 11/16: 8E. Avg. 7:25. Felt good.

Sunday 11/17: Q1 - 3E+8M+1E+3M+1E (total 16). Avg. 6:41. Avg. Strava splits 8:06/7:39/7:28/6:28/6:31/6:14/6:32/6:26/6:25/6:20/6:20/7:13/6:08/6:13/6:08/6:48. Strava was about 7 second per mile fast I think. Assuming this I average 6:27 for the M paced miles. Had a bit of trouble slowing down on the E mile between the M sections and the last E mile. Overall, I was felt very in control. I was amazed by how easy the M paced miles felt. I did not feel as though I was pushing.

Nice Sunday workout - those MP splits look solid. Some of your 8E / 16E feel a little fast (I'd target between 8-8:15)

thanks for the links, Northerner.

first week was pretty successful.

my stats:

40YO/5'8"/130

11/12 - 9MI w/ 4MI LT at 6:24, 6:13, 6:10, & 6:18.

11/13 - 11.25MI @ 7:01. too fast, i know.

11/14 - 5MI recovery @ 6:54. yes, i am aware i did not do this run correctly.

11/15 - 9MI @ 6:57.

11/16 - 5MI @ 7:22. a bit more recovery-ish.

11/17 - 15MI @ 7:18. solid.

hit all of the goals for the week. obviously need to work on going more slowly most of the time, but weas feeling fresh and motivated. looking forward to seeing everyone else's work!

Hyannis on Cape Cod? In February?? Those could be some absolutely brutal conditions.

Unlike the success stories here, I missed about a month of training with a serious non-running injury in October. I cancelled my CIM hotel and was going to just funrun for a while, but November training has been decent (~50M/week w/ some tempos) and I may rebook (prices haven't changed much and I'm no stranger to fleabag motels).

themadnessofthecrowd wrote:

11/12 - 9MI w/ 4MI LT at 6:24, 6:13, 6:10, & 6:18.

11/13 - 11.25MI @ 7:01. too fast, i know.

11/14 - 5MI recovery @ 6:54. yes, i am aware i did not do this run correctly.

11/15 - 9MI @ 6:57.

11/16 - 5MI @ 7:22. a bit more recovery-ish.

11/17 - 15MI @ 7:18. solid.

Well... If you're looking to do 2.59-3.03 in the spring, you should take the slow down part seriously. Over time, say 10-15wks, you will be closer to overtraining than a 3hr marathon. I understand that you want to go faster when fresh, but this is a trap, trust me. It sneaks up on you and gradually your times and motivation will decrease. Go slower and kill it on the workouts instead.

I would love to do a marathon later in the spring. We are having our second child in April/May though and I want to make sure I am present for the delivery.

I had a similar concern but looks like average race day temps are around 30 degrees. I am a sweaty beast so that temp actually suits me.

That said, it could also be 5 or snowing...

i hear you. slower across the board is the goal for the coming weeks.

the daniels table was very helpful in clarifying just what those slower paces should be, so thanks for that. and there's useful info in the pfitz book, as well.

in your opinion, is it a good idea to do the sunday long runs as advised in the pfitz book (ie, start slow, end faster - tho of course still much slower than race pace)?

Stats: 40 y/o, 152lb, 60"

I'm wrapping up my final macro of training as I get ready for CIM on December 8th. I did a 1:25:33 half-marathon at the end of October, spent a week recovering, and am polishing off 27 more days of training. The 1st 9 day cycle back was a little rough, but then I had a string of excellent workouts in the 2nd cycle. I made a strategic error this cycle and should have run long yesterday instead of half-marathon tempo. I'm planning to recover today and tomorrow and close off the hard training. I'll post my planned taper week next. Feedback welcome!

F: 22M LONG (FELT LIKE CRAP)

S: 4M EZ AND LEG STRENGTH

S: 6M EZ

M: OFF

T: 15.4M W/ 2X1.5-6X1 @ 6:26 average

W: 5.2M EZ

R: 6.1M EZ

F: 13M W/10X800@3:02.6 (15 MPH WINDS, PROBABLY MORE LIKE 2:57 WITHOUT)

S: 5.3M EZ

S: 5.5M EZ

TOTAL: 82.5 MILES

M: 23.2M LONG (7:32 AVERAGE, FELT AMAZING!)

T: 5.1M EZ

W: OFF AND UPPER STRENGTH

R: 17.3M W/ 10X1 @ 6:19.3 & LEG STRENGTH

F: 6.1M EZ

S: 6.3M EZ

S: 12.7M W/ 16X ¼ @ 1:26 W/ ¼ EZ

M: 6.5M EZ

T: 7M EZ

TOTAL: 84 MILES

W: 17M W/ 8M @ 6:45 & LEG STRENGTH (FELT POOR. 73 MILES OVER LAST 7D W/ 20+ AT MP OR FASTER)

R: OFF

F: 5M EZ (PLANNED)

S: 21M LONG W/ 5 @ 6:45 (PLANNED)

S: 5M EZ (PLANNED)