Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

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  • registered

    Monkeys Skyping

    Member since 03/23/2021.

    1,798 posts. Last post 5 days ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:07pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Ukraine needs to solve its own problems and remember that those right across the border matter much more than those protected by the realms of an entire ocean.

    Maybe you could expand your vision for how Ukraine would go about "solving its own problems" and the roles Russia, the EU, and the US might play in that.

    A lot of your posts come across as "Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia" and it's not like Russia is doing a stellar job of leveraging their natural resource abundance and tamping down rampant internal corruption.

  • registered

    agip

    Member since 12/12/2010.

    40,907 posts. Last post 3 months ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:08pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Lollys Master wrote:

    agip wrote:

    please.

    what Russia is doing now is in the same lifetime as what Russia/USSR did in 1932. And then Russia/USSR went on to treat Ukraine as a vassal state for another 60 years. This is well in the lifetimes of many of us.

    Russia is an imperial power in Eurasia. RU sees itself as the natural owner of an area going from Belarus to the very tip of Asia near Alaska. Putin sees it as his right to re-gain the entire swath of land that was USSR and probably the Warsaw Pact also. That's what's going on here and talking about evils of the 19c are not relevant.

    The West has every right to stop evil from happening despite what Julius Caesar or Napoleon or US Grant did.

    I mean that's a massive whataboutist leap you are taking. one of the largest I've seen. Kudos for that audacity I suppose.

    Oh, so let's narrow it down to one lifetime instead of two, how convenient. If you ever noticed, every single political post of mine is more about hypocricy than anything else. And it's not whataboutism, it's just no tolerance for double standards.

    If you insist on two lifetimes being ok, then just ignore what's going in Ukraine, since it does not concern you anyways and your grandchildren should already be ok with any changes on the map :)

    Your view seems to be that hypocrisy is worse than invading a peaceful nation, worse than bombing civilians, worse than using food as a weapon against the world.

    cool, cool, cool. You keep on fighting hypocrisy, the West will go on trying to fight evil. Have a great time.

  • registered

    Lollys Master

    Member since 01/27/2022.

    1,024 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:12pm EDT
    re: Monkeys Skyping

    Monkeys Skyping wrote:

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Ukraine needs to solve its own problems and remember that those right across the border matter much more than those protected by the realms of an entire ocean.

    Maybe you could expand your vision for how Ukraine would go about "solving its own problems" and the roles Russia, the EU, and the US might play in that.

    A lot of your posts come across as "Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia" and it's not like Russia is doing a stellar job of leveraging their natural resource abundance and tamping down rampant internal corruption.

    Ukraine should have not been messing around with EU and NATO and especially should have not let the US dictate on how to run their country. People that want to live in EU emigrated and did just fine. Ukraine itself is far away from EU and this should have not even been a topic. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  • Term1

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:12pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Russian “soldiers” raping women, men and boys.

    latimes.com
    Russia’s ‘most hidden crime’ in Ukraine war: Rape of women, girls, men and boys
    https://www.latimes.com/people/laura-king
    Ukrainian authorities believe cases of sexual assault by Russian occupiers are vastly underreported. Shame and many factors underlie survivors' unwillingness to report rapes.
    Link:www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/202...

  • registered

    carmine9

    Member since 10/25/2021.

    11,792 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:14pm EDT
    re: Term1

    Term1 wrote:

    Russian “soldiers” raping women, men and boys.

    Link:www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/202...

    Same propaganda we have been fed time and time again.

    Saddam's rape rooms, etc.

  • IgnoreJimmyDore

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:17pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Lollys Master wrote:

    IgnoreJimmyDore wrote:

    So, do you support all invasions? Or no invasions? You've already said you support Russia "liberating" the people of Donetsk by force, so you must therefore support US-led invasions elsewhere? Or, are you also a hypocrite? And, is it the pinnacle of hypocrisy to complain about hypocrisy, when you are a hypocrite about hypocrisy?

    You seem to not understand what hypocricy is. It's setting double standards, i.e.: "what we do is good, but what you do is bad", though it is exactly the same thing that is being done.

    I understand fully well what hypocrisy is, do you?

    Either be quiet about Russian business in Ukraine, or condemn your wrongdoings first and then those of Russia. You don't get to blame Russia for doing exactly the same thing the US has been doing in multiple countries - "liberating", or "bringing democracy".

    Either be quiet about US business, or condemn Russian wrongdoings first and then those of the US. You don't get to blame America for doing exactly the same thing Russia has been doing in multiple countries.

    p.s. My hypocrisy doesn't justify Russian aggression.

  • registered

    Lollys Master

    Member since 01/27/2022.

    1,024 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:20pm EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Oh, so let's narrow it down to one lifetime instead of two, how convenient. If you ever noticed, every single political post of mine is more about hypocricy than anything else. And it's not whataboutism, it's just no tolerance for double standards.

    If you insist on two lifetimes being ok, then just ignore what's going in Ukraine, since it does not concern you anyways and your grandchildren should already be ok with any changes on the map :)

    Your view seems to be that hypocrisy is worse than invading a peaceful nation, worse than bombing civilians, worse than using food as a weapon against the world.

    cool, cool, cool. You keep on fighting hypocrisy, the West will go on trying to fight evil. Have a great time.

    Part of hypocricy is that you do not understand that you live in a country, that is much more evil than Russia. Undeniable fact is that since the collapse of Soviet Union, USA has killed much more civilians than Russia. And you're contributing to this evil by giving your tax money to your government to spent B700$ per year on military. So yeah, fighting hypocricy is more important than trying to "fight evil" in this case. Since one has to identify evil correctly first, in order to fight it :)

    To be fair, my country has been covering up the fruits of evil doings of the entire world for centuries now, so I am definitely not judging. Just pointing out the hypocricy. Just own it and move on with your life.

  • Gone Fishin'

    Ernest

    Member since 08/11/2015.

    2,587 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:21pm EDT
    re: agip

    "U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said Monday the United States unequivocally condemns the intentional targeting of civilians anywhere, when asked about the killing of Dugina... Price declined to say whether Washington knew who was behind the attack."

    Take-Aways from today's press conference:

    1. Car bombings of civilians is OK so long as they are not "international". Meaning recent car bombings of civilians attributed to Ukraine Special Forces, directly and indirectly, are US-approved.

    2. If US Intelligence assessed an unknown Russian faction has having conducted the car bombing, why not say that?

    If US Intelligence has no assessment of who performed the Moscow car-bombing, why not say that?

    The inference is they know but, for some reason, do not want you to know.

  • IgnoreJimmyDore

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:22pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Monkeys Skyping wrote:

    Maybe you could expand your vision for how Ukraine would go about "solving its own problems" and the roles Russia, the EU, and the US might play in that.

    A lot of your posts come across as "Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia" and it's not like Russia is doing a stellar job of leveraging their natural resource abundance and tamping down rampant internal corruption.

    Ukraine should have not been messing around with EU and NATO and especially should have not let the US dictate on how to run their country. People that want to live in EU emigrated and did just fine. Ukraine itself is far away from EU and this should have not even been a topic. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    That sounds like a decision Ukraine should have the freedom to make. Not one that Russia should be making for them. Many in Ukraine want something better than what being anchored to Russia can provide them. Hence, their desire to increase cooperation with the west, the EU, and NATO. If you truly agreed that Russian influence and opportunities are better than those of Europea, then you would be living in Moscow, not Switzerland.

    p.s. The people of the Donbas and Crimea that want to be Russian should emigrate, and they would be just fine.

  • Term1

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:22pm EDT
    re: IgnoreJimmyDore

    cbsnews.com
    Bellingcat: The online investigators tracking alleged Russian war crimes in Ukraine
    Scott Pelley reports on the innovative group that's been exposing Vladimir Putin since 2014.
    Link:www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/bellingcat-ru...

    When Russian war criminals go on trial, I don’t think “propaganda” is going to be a successful defense for rape etc. when evidence is presented of their crimes.

  • registered

    Monkeys Skyping

    Member since 03/23/2021.

    1,798 posts. Last post 5 days ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:24pm EDT
    re: Lollys Master

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Monkeys Skyping wrote:

    Maybe you could expand your vision for how Ukraine would go about "solving its own problems" and the roles Russia, the EU, and the US might play in that.

    A lot of your posts come across as "Ukraine should just capitulate to Russia" and it's not like Russia is doing a stellar job of leveraging their natural resource abundance and tamping down rampant internal corruption.

    Ukraine should have not been messing around with EU and NATO and especially should have not let the US dictate on how to run their country. People that want to live in EU emigrated and did just fine. Ukraine itself is far away from EU and this should have not even been a topic. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    It's not clear how the US is dictating how Ukraine should be run.

    The EU is largely a trade agreement, and it seems to make a lot of sense that Ukraine might want to be involved in enhanced trade with western countries.

    It's not clear what you mean by "Ukraine is far away from EU". Physically Ukraine literally shares borders with 4 EU countries and Ukraine engages in trade with EU countries albeit not as a member state.

  • Term1

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:27pm EDT
    re: Term1

    Another Putin blunder is waging a 20th Century style war in the 21st Century. War crimes that last century could be buried, this century will be prosecuted with evidence.

  • registered

    Lollys Master

    Member since 01/27/2022.

    1,024 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:28pm EDT
    re: IgnoreJimmyDore

    IgnoreJimmyDore wrote:

    I understand fully well what hypocrisy is, do you?

    Either be quiet about US business, or condemn Russian wrongdoings first and then those of the US. You don't get to blame America for doing exactly the same thing Russia has been doing in multiple countries.

    p.s. My hypocrisy doesn't justify Russian aggression.

    I do not come from the US nor Russia, therefore I get to condemn both equally. Since I also condemn my country on what it is doing too.

    You remind me of a urine soaked bum in L.A. that pointed out to a mustard stain on my shirt.

    What is it with the US, not willing to accept its history? Genocide of the natives, enslavement of Africa, even mass rapings of german women during WWII. Yes, mass rapings:

    spiegel.de
    Book Claims US Soldiers Raped 190,000 German Women Post-WWII
    @derspiegel
    In the popular imagination, American GIs in postwar Germany were well-liked and well-behaved. But a new book claims that US soldiers raped up to 190,000 women at the end of World War II. Is there any truth to the controversia...
    Link:www.spiegel.de/international/germany/b...

  • registered

    carmine9

    Member since 10/25/2021.

    11,792 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:30pm EDT
    re: Term1

    Term1 wrote:

    Link:www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/bellingcat-ru...

    When Russian war criminals go on trial, I don’t think “propaganda” is going to be a successful defense for rape etc. when evidence is presented of their crimes.

    You do know who Bellingcat is, no?

    armswatch.com
    Link:armswatch.com/exposed-bellingcat-fabri...

    thegrayzone.com
    Bellingcat smears OPCW whistleblower, journalists with false letter, farcical claims - The Grayzone
    Aaron Maté
    Bellingcat claimed to have uncovered a letter that disproves OPCW inspectors and journalists who challenged the censorship of a Syria chemical weapons probe. But in one of many falsehoods, Bellingcat’s “letter” was in fact on...
    Link:thegrayzone.com/2020/10/28/draft-debac...

    thegrayzone.com
    Bellingcat funded by US and UK intelligence contractors that aided extremists in Syria - The Grayzone
    Kit Klarenberg
    Bellingcat is funded by scandal-ridden US and UK intelligence contractors that supported violent jihadists in Syria, while reaping profits.
    Link:thegrayzone.com/2021/10/09/bellingcat-...

    ussanews.com
    Saudi Arabia Slams Biden Over Release of Reserves
    Constitutional Nobody
    Saudi Arabia’s leadership is clearly not happy with Joe Biden. The United States and the Saudis have had an unwritten agreement for decades, which appears to now be in jeopardy because of Joe. Biden continues to play tough gu...
    Link:ussanews.com/2022/08/06/bellingcat-ser...

  • registered

    Lollys Master

    Member since 01/27/2022.

    1,024 posts. Last post 2 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:37pm EDT
    re: Monkeys Skyping

    Monkeys Skyping wrote:

    It's not clear how the US is dictating how Ukraine should be run.

    The EU is largely a trade agreement, and it seems to make a lot of sense that Ukraine might want to be involved in enhanced trade with western countries.

    It's not clear what you mean by "Ukraine is far away from EU". Physically Ukraine literally shares borders with 4 EU countries and Ukraine engages in trade with EU countries albeit not as a member state.

    Stop pretending not to understand on what's being said. EU membership is much more than a trade agreement. Ukraine has very little to offer to EU, especially considering it sparked a conflict with Russia, which has much more to offer to EU.

    Ukraine does not carry European culture and values and is much closer culturally and economicaly to Russia. A third of the country speaks Russian as their native language, for gods sake.

    In addition, I'm all in on kicking out countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia from the EU. A burden more than anything else. Western Europeans know this and openly talk about it. Far right movements are strong in almost every West European country, which should be proof enough. One of the main reasons so many Brits wanted to leave the EU is 'cause they couldn't stand violent Polaks and Lithuanians in their country anymore. Not the same culture.

  • Running with Scissors

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:46pm EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Oh, so let's narrow it down to one lifetime instead of two, how convenient. If you ever noticed, every single political post of mine is more about hypocricy than anything else. And it's not whataboutism, it's just no tolerance for double standards.

    If you insist on two lifetimes being ok, then just ignore what's going in Ukraine, since it does not concern you anyways and your grandchildren should already be ok with any changes on the map :)

    Your view seems to be that hypocrisy is worse than invading a peaceful nation, worse than bombing civilians, worse than using food as a weapon against the world.

    cool, cool, cool. You keep on fighting hypocrisy, the West will go on trying to fight evil. Have a great time.

    Peaceful? … if you consider Cuba during the missile crisis to be peaceful then sure, why not. Redefining words seems certainly seems to be in vogue these days.

  • Gone Fishin'

    Ernest

    Member since 08/11/2015.

    2,587 posts. Last post 3 years ago.
    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:50pm EDT
    re: RussianTerroristState

    RussianTerroristState wrote:

    Just like the Russians committed genocide in Crimea in 1944, then repopulated it.

    How are you using the word "Genocide" here?

    This usually refers to wholesale extermination of a people, such as Armenians by Turks in WW1, or of Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals by Nazis in WW2.

    Soviet forces captured Crimea in 1944. Crimean Tatars were accused of collaborating with Nazi Germany.

    What followed was mass deportation of roughly 190,000 Crimean Tatars.

    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

    At the same time, the US and Canada rounded up, dispossessed, and interred about 150,000 persons of Japanese ancestry. Propaganda reels and posters portrayed the "Yellow Menace" (aka "Japs" and "Nips") as evil buck-toothed rapists:

    Image:i.pinimg.com/originals/88/fe/af/88feaf...

  • Colin Bombah Harris

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:51pm EDT
    re: Ernest

    Turns out Putin ordered the Dugin hit. He false-flagged it up. Putin is maybe the best false-flagger we have ever seen. His timing, his courage, his planning, all rank him as one of the best flagsters ever.

    the-sun.com
    Putin 'behind revenge bombing that wounded war guru & killed his daughter'
    ''
    VLADIMIR Putin was most likely the mastermind behind a deadly car bomb that wounded his so-called “spiritual mastermind” and killed his daughter, experts have claimed. Alexander Du…
    Link:www.the-sun.com/news/6049973/vladimir-...

    "Vladimir is really pushing this 'spiritual advisor' friendship too far . . . ."

    Image:www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/20...

  • Term1

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:52pm EDT
    re: Term1

    independent.co.uk
    Editorial: Holding Russian soldiers to account for war crimes is a vital deterrent
    Editorial: A month-long investigation by The Independent has revealed evidence of possible war crimes in Ukraine
    Link:www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorial...

    like it or not, Russian war crimes will be prosecuted. Welcome to 21st Century style war

  • Running with Scissors

    Anonymous Poster

    3 years ago 08/22/2022 4:53pm EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Lollys Master wrote:

    Oh, so let's narrow it down to one lifetime instead of two, how convenient. If you ever noticed, every single political post of mine is more about hypocricy than anything else. And it's not whataboutism, it's just no tolerance for double standards.

    If you insist on two lifetimes being ok, then just ignore what's going in Ukraine, since it does not concern you anyways and your grandchildren should already be ok with any changes on the map :)

    Your view seems to be that hypocrisy is worse than invading a peaceful nation, worse than bombing civilians, worse than using food as a weapon against the world.

    cool, cool, cool. You keep on fighting hypocrisy, the West will go on trying to fight evil. Have a great time.

    Bombing civilians? like Iraq, Bosnia, and Japan to name a few?

    Hey, fun fact. Why were Nagasaki and Hiroshima chosen as targets? …. because every other city ( full of civilians) had already been leveled.

    On another note… which portion of the population suffers most, and sometimes starves to death, under US sanctions? It’s certainly not the political class or military. Nope… only civilians.

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