I'm not adding to the recent conversation here. This is something that reading about this method that I'm curious about.
At the beginning of the thread Sirpoc mentions his belief that he's overweight for a runner but isn't losing or gaining weight anymore. Has this changed at all? Obviously this method is very effective, but I'm wondering his gains of this method could have been amplified by steady weight loss. I'm not in any way trying to discredit the method and I think that it works. Also, to clarify, I don't think that weight necessarily impacts performance that much.
This is something I wondered about on Strava. I asked him this. It's on a run of his from maybe quite a number of months ago, he usually replies openly, I guess he gets so many questions it's just a matter of if he sees it.
When he started running he was around 65kg and is 173cm. He quite quickly in the first number of months running dropped weight to around 61kg and +-1kg there since. He said at Christmas he went back up to 63kg recently but blamed it on beer and overeating. He replied again saying cycling he was around 58-59kg, but it was just too hard to get back down to that peak racing weight. That lines up really to the problems of being old and I guess his diet.
I would guess it's a small fator in the early days, but nothing major. We are not talking fat guy go skinny, just someone who started with a few extra kg for their height they didn't need most probably. Most runners in that kind of shape with 3-4kg or so to lose of fat, it usually has gone quite quickly.
I realise I spend now much too much time snooping on Strava that I know the answer to this.
The more pertinent question I am interested in is how much was his cycling background worth? This I do not know answer to and never seen an answer. Note, it was 4 years between cycling quit and starting running, direct from him on podcast and he did nothing in-between.
Is it worth anything? I would say yes, but also if it did, you would think why he did suck so bad to begin with? Earliest personal TT was very slow and even after a number of months training he sucked a bit and was running +21 minute for a parkrun. From the time frame, he was already running 6 month.
This is the biggest curiosity to me, as someone else mentioned. I think he mentioned that his untrained cycling FTP is 160w. This is very, very low. Maybe his secret power is he responds better to training stimulation more than the average person?
Which podcast was he on and what was his early personal TT? "Very slow" can mean a lot of things-if he was in the 21:00 bracket that is still respectable for a new runner and with cycling 4 years in the past, he may have had a higher floor to start.
There have many posts on this thread, where it has been questioned whether this method is good for more FT runners, and whether they need to add or modify some components.
There's been plenty of posts, one I agree with is if you are FT like me, even more likely to succeed to train like this. It actually worked on my glaring weaknesses.
I struggled with the paces at first, but after a few weeks of adapting I got used to it.
Very FT, 400-800m in college and had huge success training like this in adult life. Only really care about 5k turkey trots, I occasional 10k and a few HM.
Am thinking about doing a marathon next year and hopefully this will help me succeed there as well. Hobby jogging for 5 years, peaked pretty damn early but then in the last year I would say about 7-8% up turn in performance , using sirpoc method. One argument I don't buy is the going to the well in workouts. Just silly to me. I'm faster surely because I am aerobically fitter. I don't see how I could have gotten that 7-8% uptick in performance just by that.
In 2021 his first recorded park run was on 14th August at 21:34 (which I think he discusses on the pod cast and on this thread) and within 7 weeks he was down to 19:32
First broke 19 mins on 9th July 2022 (40 weeks after first sub 20) First broke 18 mins on 11th Feb 2023 (31 weeks after first sub 19) First broke 17 mins on 23rd Sept 2023(32 weeks after first sub 18) First broke 16 mins on 9th March 2024 (24 weeks after first sub 17)
Last 5 park run times, in order have been 15:54, 15:56, 15:26, 15:41, 15:16 (last park run was Feb 2025)
Just to compare this to the mileage machine Nick Bester. Who runs every day way too fast and turns up at park run for a "full send" very often
I'll add: races are uncomfortable. These training plans try and maximize comfort and minimize discomfort, for the benefit of consistency. And yes, consistent training will lead to improvement. That's the basis for my general running philosophy, even if it's much more zen than a lactate meter. So if backing off and doing something like SirPoc's plan is the only way for you to be consistent over time, awesome! Go for it! But you're going to miss the last piece of the puzzle.
You're going to have to get used, one way or another, to managing discomfort. That feeling on the ninth lap of a 5000 when you feel like you're at your absolute limit, but because you've "seen God" in a workout or two, some little voice at the back of your head is telling you you'll be fine, even as your nervous system screams you won't be.
You bring up some good points; can you please post some aspects of your training block or a typical week? No public profile if you are uncomfortable with that, of course, we respect your privacy.
I would be shocked if he shared any real training examples given an earlier statement- #5655
"...I'm not trying to win anyone to my side or act as a training guru. Not one of you should care about my training/results, because I'm not you. What I do works for me, but it may not work for another person on earth..."
He thinks we shouldn't care about his personal training (someone with 25+ years experience and many wins) but is happy offer those differing opinions and complain when people push back.
There have many posts on this thread, where it has been questioned whether this method is good for more FT runners, and whether they need to add or modify some components.
There's been plenty of posts, one I agree with is if you are FT like me, even more likely to succeed to train like this. It actually worked on my glaring weaknesses.
I struggled with the paces at first, but after a few weeks of adapting I got used to it.
Very FT, 400-800m in college and had huge success training like this in adult life. Only really care about 5k turkey trots, I occasional 10k and a few HM.
Am thinking about doing a marathon next year and hopefully this will help me succeed there as well. Hobby jogging for 5 years, peaked pretty damn early but then in the last year I would say about 7-8% up turn in performance , using sirpoc method. One argument I don't buy is the going to the well in workouts. Just silly to me. I'm faster surely because I am aerobically fitter. I don't see how I could have gotten that 7-8% uptick in performance just by that.
That is an impressive improvement. Do you find the longer reps harder than the shorter faster ones? What sort of weekly mileage are you doing, and did your mileage increase, which would have contributed to improvement?
In 2021 his first recorded park run was on 14th August at 21:34 (which I think he discusses on the pod cast and on this thread) and within 7 weeks he was down to 19:32
First broke 19 mins on 9th July 2022 (40 weeks after first sub 20) First broke 18 mins on 11th Feb 2023 (31 weeks after first sub 19) First broke 17 mins on 23rd Sept 2023(32 weeks after first sub 18) First broke 16 mins on 9th March 2024 (24 weeks after first sub 17)
Last 5 park run times, in order have been 15:54, 15:56, 15:26, 15:41, 15:16 (last park run was Feb 2025)
Just to compare this to the mileage machine Nick Bester. Who runs every day way too fast and turns up at park run for a "full send" very often
I think on the pod, he discussed his first ever self timed 5k after a few weeks training was very slow, 27? Seems just like we thought, a lot of progress quite quickly, then stalled for a while around. Am I imagining it, or was this discussed as well? How at the start he likely looking back would have improved I guess no matter what, which made him think the training he was doing was good. I will have to go back and listen to it again tonight.
One other slight thing, I think the two parkrun courses are very different in terms of how fast they are. So that's a factor as well. But just a small one.
Shows you how we went from remarkably average, to what, 90%+ age grade on recent 5k and 10k races? Crazy. Just crazy, but also how you have to really be in this for the long haul!
You don't agree with shortish intervals which is fundamental to the method?
Extending blocks of 15 mins is more like sustained running than intervals.
What fundamental to this method is performing the most work possible. You can do that any way you like. Even in this thread, only a couple folks are using lactate to guide them, which some would consider fundamental to this method.
The point I’m trying to make is to simplify the work. Everyone is so hung up on paces and interval sets and they don’t get where those paces come from, etc. So, go run longer blocks at a lower intensity because running at 90% threshold and 95% threshold is not significantly different. Making the intervals shorter sometimes makes people overpower the intervals, so we should avoid that.
Go run low subt blocks and extend them out. You can do easily create progressions that are basic and simple to troubleshoot.
You don't agree with shortish intervals which is fundamental to the method?
Extending blocks of 15 mins is more like sustained running than intervals.
What fundamental to this method is performing the most work possible. You can do that any way you like. Even in this thread, only a couple folks are using lactate to guide them, which some would consider fundamental to this method.
The point I’m trying to make is to simplify the work. Everyone is so hung up on paces and interval sets and they don’t get where those paces come from, etc. So, go run longer blocks at a lower intensity because running at 90% threshold and 95% threshold is not significantly different. Making the intervals shorter sometimes makes people overpower the intervals, so we should avoid that.
Go run low subt blocks and extend them out. You can do easily create progressions that are basic and simple to troubleshoot.
To me, that is not simplifying it, but making it more complicated with more room for error.
You have a very well developed sense of feel and RPE, most runners these days don't.
In 2021 his first recorded park run was on 14th August at 21:34 (which I think he discusses on the pod cast and on this thread) and within 7 weeks he was down to 19:32
First broke 19 mins on 9th July 2022 (40 weeks after first sub 20) First broke 18 mins on 11th Feb 2023 (31 weeks after first sub 19) First broke 17 mins on 23rd Sept 2023(32 weeks after first sub 18) First broke 16 mins on 9th March 2024 (24 weeks after first sub 17)
Last 5 park run times, in order have been 15:54, 15:56, 15:26, 15:41, 15:16 (last park run was Feb 2025)
Just to compare this to the mileage machine Nick Bester. Who runs every day way too fast and turns up at park run for a "full send" very often
I think on the pod, he discussed his first ever self timed 5k after a few weeks training was very slow, 27? Seems just like we thought, a lot of progress quite quickly, then stalled for a while around. Am I imagining it, or was this discussed as well? How at the start he likely looking back would have improved I guess no matter what, which made him think the training he was doing was good. I will have to go back and listen to it again tonight.
One other slight thing, I think the two parkrun courses are very different in terms of how fast they are. So that's a factor as well. But just a small one.
Shows you how we went from remarkably average, to what, 90%+ age grade on recent 5k and 10k races? Crazy. Just crazy, but also how you have to really be in this for the long haul!
Thanks for taking the time to do this data pull! 27 5k down to 15 5k over say 5 years? Assuming the 27 was in 2020-ish and then he did the 21 5k that same time. Then the 19 5k in 2021. Damn....
To me, that is not simplifying it, but making it more complicated with more room for error.
You have a very well developed sense of feel and RPE, most runners these days don't.
If the runner does not have a well-developed sense of RPE, why are they even trying to perform interval training? That’s the part where most athletes are approaching training backwards.
The entire point of lactate sampling and using power meters is to modulate work rate and tune the sense of RPE. You must be able to control yourself when racing or performing. You need to learn how threshold feels, and how breathing so subtly changes when youre very slightly over threshold compared with in threshold or sub threshold. There are distinct sensations for each.
Honestly, until most of the people in this thread learn how to run, they shouldn’t be trying any complicated plans.
You might be the most annoying poster on this thread yet, impressive considering the early days of coach wizard and level.
You are the one that’s over complicating things. The vast majority of people who use the method do not use a stryd or a lactate meter. Whether they use HR, RPE or pace guidelines, most people improve. They don’t need to know the why.
You might be the most annoying poster on this thread yet, impressive considering the early days of coach wizard and level.
You are the one that’s over complicating things. The vast majority of people who use the method do not use a stryd or a lactate meter. Whether they use HR, RPE or pace guidelines, most people improve. They don’t need to know the why.
even as misinformed as wizard was he actually used data at times and had methods.
lexel has backed off his preaching too, which is nice.
You might be the most annoying poster on this thread yet, impressive considering the early days of coach wizard and level.
You are the one that’s over complicating things. The vast majority of people who use the method do not use a stryd or a lactate meter. Whether they use HR, RPE or pace guidelines, most people improve. They don’t need to know the why.
Thanks buddy. Appreciate it.
Your argument that most improve on this method without any tech just proves that most people are training wrong prior to distilling training down to subt work and moving away from high intensity training.
People should absolutely know the why. How else do you know you’re doing something correctly?
To me, that is not simplifying it, but making it more complicated with more room for error.
You have a very well developed sense of feel and RPE, most runners these days don't.
If the runner does not have a well-developed sense of RPE, why are they even trying to perform interval training? That’s the part where most athletes are approaching training backwards.
Because you have to start somewhere?
Having a watch lets you monitor your pace and your HR, which are both good ways to guide RPE development.
To me, that is not simplifying it, but making it more complicated with more room for error.
You have a very well developed sense of feel and RPE, most runners these days don't.
If the runner does not have a well-developed sense of RPE, why are they even trying to perform interval training? That’s the part where most athletes are approaching training backwards.
The entire point of lactate sampling and using power meters is to modulate work rate and tune the sense of RPE. You must be able to control yourself when racing or performing. You need to learn how threshold feels, and how breathing so subtly changes when youre very slightly over threshold compared with in threshold or sub threshold. There are distinct sensations for each.
Honestly, until most of the people in this thread learn how to run, they shouldn’t be trying any complicated plans.
Seems like this is getting very circular at this point.
You just said most people arent using lactate; and even within the subset that are i dont know if i would call it 'guided' more like a guard rail or a touchpoint to confirm after the fact.
To me the guidelines are there to idiot proof this and build the intensity control within the parameters.
Sure, you will probably develop a good sense of RPE throughout the process but thats a byproduct of doing the work correctly first and foremost
Sure, you will probably develop a good sense of RPE throughout the process but thats a byproduct of doing the work correctly first and foremost
RPE is king. I don’t care what your target paces are, RPE will control your actual paces.
Doing the work correctly entails having RPE reflect the work. If you can’t feel the work properly, you have no idea if it’s correct. I know thats a little abstract, but it’s the reality.
So, how do you know the work you are doing is correct? Some arbitrary pace chart you guys came up with?
In 2021 his first recorded park run was on 14th August at 21:34 (which I think he discusses on the pod cast and on this thread) and within 7 weeks he was down to 19:32
First broke 19 mins on 9th July 2022 (40 weeks after first sub 20) First broke 18 mins on 11th Feb 2023 (31 weeks after first sub 19) First broke 17 mins on 23rd Sept 2023(32 weeks after first sub 18) First broke 16 mins on 9th March 2024 (24 weeks after first sub 17)
Last 5 park run times, in order have been 15:54, 15:56, 15:26, 15:41, 15:16 (last park run was Feb 2025)
Just to compare this to the mileage machine Nick Bester. Who runs every day way too fast and turns up at park run for a "full send" very often