I'm breaking my rule: Second Kip Litton Thread - Can someone please tell me what's up?

I was thinking of how to put this to a rest. Has anyone ever seen the season wrapup shows of "The Deadliest Catch" where the different captains all get together and sit around drinking beer and talk about the stories of the season? I think something similar could be pitched to ESPN or a sports network regarding the Kip Litton story. On one side there could be Rojo, Scott Hubbard, the creator of the Kip Litton blogspot, Mark Singer, etc.. On the other side there would be Kip Litton, Dan Baxley, and a couple other defenders of Kip. There would be a moderator that both parties agree to with set ground rules - no interrupting, a set time to talk, no profanity (Baxley). I think after a few beers the truth may come out. It would give Kip a chance to clear himself in front of a nationwide TV audience.

I love this idea, but we all know it ain't gonna happen. Dan Baxley knows Litton is full of shit and is hanging around only because he's hoping the Johnsons might be dumb enough to go for the "I'll run a sub-3:30 on the marathon course of my choosing if you give me fifty grand" idea that Litton is SUPPOSEDLY throwing out there (Baxley says he is, but who even knows?). If Litton actually does this, he won't have cleared his name in any way -- jogging 8:00 miles for 26.2 isn't the same as running 6:30s and everyone knows this -- but he will have banked $50,000 and will hide out and laugh at every one of his critics. Shit, if I said I'd run a bunch of 10Ks in 29:00 and was called on it, and then offered to let someone watch/film/follow me from start to finish as long as I was paid $10,000 to break 34, would anyone put a shred of stock in this? It's just more bullshit and smoke-blowing.

But yeah, I am really entertained by the idea of a televised "debate" involving the major players here. It would be a bloodbath and embarrassing to such a degree that even I might almost feel bad for Litton by the time it was over.

I really doubt anyone is willing to meet Kippy at his 50K demands... I this Rojo and the message board poster that have combined to offer up $3500 for 2:56, or Rojo who has $1k on the line for any toeing of any line if followed the entire race... seriously, anyone who could put up any respectable time on the clock would do this. I've won some silver plates and coffee mugs for my age group placings ... the chance to earn a solid cash award... for showing up at a race... give it to charity, buy a swank dinner... whatever. Kip won't toe the line b/c he might not even be able to jog 3:30. Yet he'll tell his friends to buy his stories of speed. I love the televised debate idea. But at the end of the day, as I go out to toe the line at a turkey trot or a marathon...I want my fellow competitors to place ahead of or behind me fair and square. Folks like Kip need to be outed. That's why this thread is here.

The 2 quotes below, from the New Yorker interview are, to my mind, hilarious.

He admits that the bib is underneath, but doesn't explain why as no serious runner would do that race after race. He implies that being shown in a picture in the center of the road means he wasn't trying to avoid photos. No shit sherlock! You would WANT to show up somewhere in a photo while running, bib hidden or not. I really wonder who he thinks he's fooling?

The second quote is even funnier. He was warming up and got too far away from the starting line.

1) He's got his trainers on minutes before the start of a marathon...yeah right.

2) He randomly left his racing shoes on the side of the road and took off to warm up in his trainers? Out of all the marathons that I've run, I always wear my trainers and just leave my expensive racing shoes on the side of the road expecting to change into them before the start and run back to my car(:):)) to put them away for safe keeping. Sure he did

3) He then stopped as he ran by, knowing exactly where they'd still be, took off his trainers, put on his racing shoes, and left his trainers there?

I'ver heard some tall tales in my years, but that's one of the biggest loads of crap I've ever heard.

Quote Number 1

“The bib is still underneath but I am in the middle of the road,” he wrote, triumphantly and accurately. “If I was trying to ‘avoid photos’ or ‘not be recognized as a race entrant’ why would I be in the middle of the road this time between other runners?”

Quote Number 2

Regarding his mid-race shoe change at Deadwood: “I was doing my warmup, and I got too far away from the starting line. As I was running back toward the starting line . . . I still had on my trainers. I couldn’t get back to where my shoes were, and then back to the start of the race, so I just started the race in those shoes. And, as I ran down the race course, when I passed my shoes I stopped and swapped them out.”

The lesson, anyone can do what he did and make up the excuses that he has, but to a normal thinking person, they are plausible reasons, don't add up, and are lies.

When you start as far back as he did at the Solstice, over a hundred people would have saw him blowing by and that's being conservative. NONE did, not one, including a top Michigan Master runner who he finished ahead but to my knowledge has never come forward to say he remembers being passed by him, which if he started that far back, HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO PASSED HIM!

Translation: He cheated and was disqualified.

they are NOT plausible reason. Let's get my point right:)

I live close to Kip but have really only seen him a couple times in recent years. Last night I saw him at a local eatery with his wife and 4 other couples. He and one other guy seemed to be commanding the most attention. It made me so angry to see him cracking jokes and seeing everyone laughing and treating him like he was such a charismatic guy. Shouldn't he be hiding somewhere alone in a cave? How dare he go out in public and act happy and be so entertaining? When I saw how other people liked him and treated him like he was somebody it just kept making me madder!

I wanted to do something nasty to him but what could I do? With all the great minds here at Letsrun surely someone has a good idea of something I can do next time I see him. Ideas?

You are a wimp

Was he mocking people in a boston marathon jacket?

I presume from your general tone and content that you are just being a dick but giving the benefit of the doubt that any of the above is true why not politely and reasonably ask him when he is going to come clean and end all this?

You made a smart move by not confronting Kip. He may have asked you out to the parking lot to settle things and it would not have been pretty. The beating you received at the hands of Kip while his friends laughed at you would not have been worth it. Obviously, others who know Kip for real find him the life of the party and a great guy.

Redhead Fred wrote:

You made a smart move by not confronting Kip. He may have asked you out to the parking lot to settle things and it would not have been pretty. The beating you received at the hands of Kip while his friends laughed at you would not have been worth it. Obviously, others who know Kip for real find him the life of the party and a great guy.

I'm sure that everyone reading that is shaking with fear, everybody is a tough guy on the internet Kip (or should I say "Walter"?)

I admit to being curious as to what the primary motivating factor in all of Kip Litton's chicanery is. Is he mostly mentally ill or just a garden-variety dishonest dirtbag?

Do you guys actually have a life, or is it all about you ego and making your friends and neighbors believe you are something you're not (an athlete)? Wake up: Nobody cares about your 3+ hour jogathons so what Kip did or didn't do doesn't matter. Just run your own race.

coach d wrote:

Do you guys actually have a life, or is it all about you ego and making your friends and neighbors believe you are something you're not (an athlete)? Wake up: Nobody cares about your 3+ hour jogathons so what Kip did or didn't do doesn't matter. Just run your own race.

What's your excuse?

coach d wrote:

Do you guys actually have a life, or is it all about you ego and making your friends and neighbors believe you are something you're not (an athlete)? Wake up: Nobody cares about your 3+ hour jogathons so what Kip did or didn't do doesn't matter. Just run your own race.

How fast do you have to run a marathon to meet your definition of an "athlete?" Most letsrunners can run well under 3hrs

I broke 3 hours at age 16, Mr. Coach d...whoever you are. I'm NOT a world class runner and don't think that what I did was amazing, even at age 16. But it took hard work and I actually did it, without cheating in any way, shape, or form. Can you say the same?

I find it annoying that he lied and cheated people out of their rightful finishing places or even put their finishing position in question. You have different morals, obviously.

I also find you to be quite a hypocrite for posting on something and then having the audacity to question others as to if they have a life.

Don't comment, just go away and give your great wisdom on extremely relevant threads like doing repeat miles in 37.2 degree weather with a 16.3 mph wind.

i found this story by pure chance yesterday and am absolutely fascinated... what's the deal with kip litton? why does he cheat and then spend an incredible amount of time trolling this forum to deny it? does his family know? his "friends"?

cheating is nothing new to running, unfortunately. everyone wants the glory, fewer want the pain and effort of training relentlessly. i'm guessing that right now kip is caught in a lance armstrong gordian knot. he's lied to everyone for a loooong time. on some level he's pathologically convinced himself that he's "right". and, he's aware that if he admits it, he has to return prize money, sponsor money, medals, and possibly face criminal prosecution (for, say, fraud).

the bottom line, however, is that he's a complete douchbag and a loser. kip.. everyone knows you scour this forum and respond. absolutely no one - NO ONE - believes any of your horseshit stories about why you were DQd or "self-DQd" or whatever your BS explanation is about the west wyoming kip litton memorial solo marathon. you will never come up with a plausible explanation for changing clothes during a race (the vermont city one is the best: here are two pix which show you wearing a different shirt, shorts, and socks.

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/vermont-city-marathon.html

). you will never have a plausible explanation for your unrealistic splits, negative splits, sudden improvement, missing timing pads, etc.

why is this forum alive?

because the rest of us are not cheaters, we work our asses off running, and we resent it when our (or someone else's) victories are stolen from us by a cheating POS. dozens of runners who did run, and won, were cheated of that prize because you are a self-absorbed, deluded, pathological liar.

and really, i hope you keep cheating. i really do. because when you finally get nailed (and you will), it will be a sweet sweet day for the rest of us. good thing your wife is a lawyer. you'll need one.

necia wrote:

because when you finally get nailed (and you will), it will be a sweet sweet day for the rest of us. good thing your wife is a lawyer. you'll need one.

He's already been "nailed" (disqualified) at 8 races, made up 3 races including a marathon in which he listed himself as the winner, and cheated at many others where the race directors either didn't care or have the balls to DQ him.

And he's not done. He still has deniers on here (could be Kip himself, could be Dan Baxley, could be Nick Litton, could be Lisa Litton, could be Annette Lloyd).

The guy has an active dental license in Michigan. if he cuts corners and cheats in road races, who knows what he would do on the job? Perhaps he had some kind of mental illness going on in 2009-2010? Maybe he's cured now and OK to practice dentistry? IMO You have to worry about the sanity of your dentist while he's actively doing these things!

necia wrote:

he's lied to everyone for a loooong time. on some level he's pathologically convinced himself that he's "right". and, he's aware that if he admits it, he has to return prize money, sponsor money, medals, and possibly face criminal prosecution (for, say, fraud).

the bottom line, however, is that he's a complete douchbag and a loser. kip.. everyone knows you scour this forum and respond. absolutely no one - NO ONE - believes any of your horseshit stories about why you were DQd or "self-DQd" or whatever your BS explanation is about the west wyoming kip litton memorial solo marathon.

He has no sponsor money. In the end he raised only $20 for cystic fibrosis foundation. Mr Singer believes the motive to be ego. He may have won a couple hundred dollars of prize money for top master in a few races.

I think Kip (or some troll who is a Kip supporter on here) tries to create this illusion that people in Clarkston and Davison (and the Michigan running scene in general) think the whole cheating thing and the New Yorker article is bogus or a hoax/or a joke on us all, that Mark Singer is full of shit, but upon actually speaking to people in the Michigan running arena this does not seem to be the case. most people in the running stores know about Kip and his running "style"...they've read the New Yorker article and believe the New Yorker article and NOT this dipshit.

From the SOKLR blog:

"Hi,

I’m a neighbor of Kip Litton (literally live less than ¼ mile from him, same subdivision). So I see him run in/out of the sub on a regular basis. Although we share the same interest of running, that’s about it. Recently I received an email from him inquiring about a marathon in Wisconsin that he mistakenly thought I ran annually. He thought I ran the WhislteStop marathon in Ashland, WI, however I regularly run the Lakefront Marathon in Milwaukee. That being said, he wrote “I wanted to ask you a few questions about the WhistleStop Marathon. If you have a chance could you call me tonight or one of the next couple evenings? Thanks. - Kip Litton”. At first I ignored his email as I’m not really friends with him as he had previously insulted my father-in-law by mocking him like a high school sophomore after my father-in-law asked him about his Boston Marathoner Finisher jacket that Kip was wearing while both where dining at a local restaurant.

When I told my wife about the email, she got curios and googled him and saw all the news about his running “style”. She passed on the web sites and I quickly read as much as I could. I did not respond to his emails until later that week after he dropped off an envelope in my mailbox asking the same. He’s obviously determined to get some answers. I responded with a brief email stating that I’ve never run the WhistleStop but have run Milwaukee’s Lakefront which was already sold out for 2011. He thanked me and that was the end of our correspondence. I’m speculating he wanted to know where timing mats were placed and where photographers were situated. Again, just speculation.

Regarding all the allegations about his running “style” and DQs from races, I believe them. I once respected him for his running “talent”, but now believe he is a cheat and a scam based on the incident with my father-in-law, the other subdivision encounters and his arrogance (now much deflated). If I were a race director, I’d DQ him from a race unless he’s documented in photos. Others I talk to in the neighborhood are aware of his cheating exploits and I am spreading the word encouraging those that are unaware to look him up on the web.

Kip can run, and he bikes a lot to cross train. I’m speculating that he may get to the next timing mat by biking, posing as a race volunteer that rides the course monitoring runner’s physical condition. He also bikes with a neighbor, regularly going out on 50+ mile rides in an afternoon, several times a week. So he is capable, but probably of 3:15 to 3:20 marathons.

You may use the facts of this email in your blog, no names please. If you want more information about him, call on my number listed below."