doubler wrote:
I need to give the bike photo it’s own quickie article. To remove all doubt and use the better photo that shows the socks better. Those are unique.
There’s no explanation for that.
I was thinking the same thing, for maximum impact and all that, this is the slightly enhanced resolution one I posted at the top of page 267:
https://imgur.com/a/z9y92Ih#aaVz35mand this:
https://imgur.com/a/z9y92Ih#aaVz35mis Swoosh a Loyola thing? wrote:
Why does FM only wear swoosh gear?
Are you missing that Asics cap?
is Swoosh a Loyola thing? wrote:
Nike Cycling wrote:
They used to make excellent cycling shoes, but it seems they discontinued the line along with Lance Armstrong.
Why does FM only wear swoosh gear?
He's wearing Saucony shoes for one of those epic cheating sessions at LAM.
KudzuRunner wrote:
This may already have been addressed, but does anybody have a theory about when in the course of his career he began to cheat? In this long list of races, it seems clear that Boston in 2008 is legit, and I'm guessing that the three Pike's Peak are legit. But knowing what we know now, it's hard not to wonder whether it goes back to that very first Santa Clarita in the fall of 2007, which is almost a full hour faster than Boston, five months later. Any thoughts on this?
Frank’s Marathon History
3/24/2019 2:53:10 Los Angeles Disqualified
2/9/2019 2:53:54 Phoenix
10/7/2018 2:53:27 Long Beach
3/8/2018 2:56:12 Los Angeles
11/5/2017 3:02:49 Santa Clarita
10/8/2017 2:57:09 Long Beach
3/19/2017 2:58:07 Los Angeles
12/4/2016 CIM Disqualified
10/9/2016 2:55:07 Long Beach
3/20/2016 2:59:23 Oakland
11/8/2015 3:04:48 Santa Clarita
10/11/2015 2:57:04 Long Beach
3/15/2015 2:52:47 Los Angeles
12/7/2014 2:53:33 CIM Disqualified
11/2/2014 3:06:46 Santa Clarita
10/12/2014 3:00:54 Long Beach
7/27/2014 2:59:40 San Francisco
6/1/2014 3:02:39 Rock n Roll San Diego
3/9/2014 2:59:10 Los Angeles
2/2/2014 3:04:45 Surf City
1/19/2014 3:06:41 Carlsbad
11/3/2013 3:06:03 Santa Clarita
8/18/2013 6:11:37 Pike’s Peak
3/17/2013 3:00:16 Los Angeles
2/3/2013 3:05:30 Surf City
11/4/2012 3:09:53 Santa Clarita
3/8/2012 3:04:03 Los Angeles
2/5/2012 3:09:27 Surf City
11/6/2011 3:11:25 Santa Clarita
10/9/2011 3:09:34 Long Beach
7/31/2011 3:09:09 San Francisco
5/15/2011 3:10:48 Pasadena
3/20/2011 3:19:21 Los Angeles
2/6/2011 3:11:53 Surf City
11/17/2010 3:15:16 Santa Clarita
8/22/2010 6:08:12 Pike’s Peak
3/21/2010 3:18:13 Los Angeles
2/21/2010 3:19:53 Pasadena
11/8/2009 3:21:44 Santa Clarita
8/16/2009 5:51:28 Pike’s Peak
5/25/2009 3:28:08 Los Angeles
3/22/2009 3:19:59 Pasadena
4/21/2008 4:25:58 Boston
11/4/2007 3:27:23 Santa Clarita
I thought there might be a similar Frank on bike photo from San Francisco 2011 but can't find the photos.
Without the arrow and a bit more colour identification:
SF wasn't a duathlon wrote:
Yep, not over until the confession and the apologies. Specifically apologize for threatening to sue every one and their dog.
i dont want confessions or apologies. i want more threats and denials.
all it's doing is making him look even worse.
keep fighting the good fight Frank.
What's up with LA wrote:
It's been fun, but now the world knows he's a cheater. It's time to leave the sad old man alone. Move on to the next cheater.
Thank you Frank, for making burn through all my high speed data three days early this month refreshing this thread.
Unfortunately (???) there is no NEXT cheater, so we'll keep pounding Frankie into the ground.
WTF^n wrote:
Koopa wrote:
i dont want confessions or apologies. i want more threats and denials.
all it's doing is making him look even worse.
keep fighting the good fight Frank.
That seems weird to me.
I wish everyone the best. In Frank's case I believe that would involve confessions, apologies and starting to lead an honest life.
Why would anyone not wish for this?
because he doesn't deserve it.
Agree. I think the cheaters out there are thinking twice about it now.
Think about this - the smoking gun bike pic went from being posted here today to national tv on inside edition tonite. That’s amazing.
On a random note, I will forever chuckle whenever I hear or see the word “skulk.”
There’s a long list of marathons on there to dig into!!(As if guys in their 60s can run maximal effort almost monthly marathons, laughable)
Avocado's Number wrote:
Pike's Peak Mule wrote:
That's why I was looking for photos of Pike's Peak. There are no photos of FM on the course, so how do we know he ran it himself?
I've discussed Frank's performances in the Pikes Peak races, as well as some possible methods of cheating in those races, in various posts during the course of this thread. I also included some links relating to those subjects. I'll just quickly note a few things here:
1. Frank's 1988 performance, when he was 39 years old, is consistent with relatively flat sea-level performances of around three hours, and arguably better for a sea-level runner without much specific training for a long uphill followed by a long downhill. There would have been various ways to cheat in that race, including course-cutting and perhaps bib-muling, but Frank's performance was reasonably consistent with what I might have expected him to be able to do at that age. (I think that many people may be assuming, incorrectly, that he has always been a slowpoke.) Although there was television coverage of the Pikes Peak races that year, and I still have a tape of that television coverage, I think it's very unlikely that it would provide much useful information in this case. Also, although I know that there were one or more race photographers at some of the Pikes Peak races in the 1980s, I don't know whether those photographers took pictures of all runners in 1988, and I'd be pretty surprised if anyone here could find one or more race photos of Frank (or someone else with his race number) that could shed much light. (I suppose you could ask Frank if he has any photos of his performance.) For a number of reasons, I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
2. In Frank's three marathon performances from 2009 to 2013, he finished first, second, and fourth in the 60-64 age group. In the 2012 Pikes Peak Ascent. he finished fifteenth. Those performances would generally be consistent with flat sea-level times of, roughly, about 3:30 to 4:00 or more. Again, there would have been various ways of cheating in those races, but significant course-cutting would have been increasingly difficult as additional course marshals and intermediate timing checkpoints were added over the years. I don't know how much photographic evidence might be available from those races, which raises the possibility of bib-muling, but I do question why anyone in California would care enough about times on Pikes Peak to use a bib-mule, and I don't think that Frank's age-group places, although generally quite high, are obviously outrageous. For various reasons, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on these performances, but I also realize that, by his early 60s, he may have been locked into a pattern of cheating in virtually every race, even trail races for which times are sui generis.
I think it is likely he ran Pike's Peak in 1988 without cheating. Wasn't that also about when he ran 1500m on the track? Obviously, cheating is not possible in that situation. As far as 2009-2013 Pike's Peak, it might be possible that he ran those legitimately, but does anyone really think so? It just seems terribly out of character. "I'll cheat at all these races except for Pike's Peak?" At that point, he was well onto his way on a new path, where cheating was the norm, and not cheating was, well, apparently unthinkable.
Thanks. Awesome.
Youtube or Twitter it wrote:
Here ya go OS users
https://youtu.be/fBNZn6yiHfM
MC Hammer wrote:
Roderick Powell wrote:
FYI, we do have two 71 year old mega stars...Jeannie Rice and Gene Dykes..true ambassadors of our sport...
Have we completely vetted them?
Go away troll.
Greg Chrisman wrote:
I will forever chuckle whenever I hear or see the word “skulk.”
And think of Frankie:
1. keep out of sight, typically with a sinister or cowardly motive.
Pike's Peak Mule wrote:
Wasn't that also about when he ran 1500m on the track? Obviously, cheating is not possible in that situation.
Cheating is always possible. There is a video of a high school kid cheating at an indoor 800 meters. And like Frank he was habitual.
It's Always Possible to Cheat wrote:
Pike's Peak Mule wrote:
Wasn't that also about when he ran 1500m on the track? Obviously, cheating is not possible in that situation.
Cheating is always possible. There is a video of a high school kid cheating at an indoor 800 meters. And like Frank he was habitual.
Does a cheetah change its spots?
Same everything. wrote:
Without the arrow and a bit more colour identification:
https://imgur.com/a/deD3rcl
Why is there a black cat draped across the handlebars?
Curious Programmer wrote:
Just wonderin'. wrote:
When you've done with that I was wonderin' if the 2009 Pasadena is the next one you super sleuths can research. It's one of his earliest fraudulent marathons to be covered by a photo company, he's wearing full heavy wet clothing and recorded 3:19:59 lol. Back then Frank would never have imagined the super sleuthing that's going on now so there's got to be some cheating picture evidence there.
The reason for outing him in this one means there's evidence in 2009 and evidence in 2019 and a couple in between, so it's cut and dried with "irrefutable" evidence (as Loyola High School Head Coach Diaz would say) that he's been at it for at least 10 years.
I'll look later tonight. I won't be free for a few hours and my son has been waking up at night, so no guarantees. May have to be tomorrow.
Thanks.
Frank was signed by Fill Nite after a fierce fight by shoe and apparel companies. Read all about it on page 69.
is Swoosh a Loyola thing? wrote:
Nike Cycling wrote:
They used to make excellent cycling shoes, but it seems they discontinued the line along with Lance Armstrong.
Why does FM only wear swoosh gear?
FillNite wrote:
BTW, as a rep for Nike, there was some fierce competition for the doctor's endorsement and sponsorship. As you can imagine, all the shoe companies want a piece of the next GOAT of age group distance running. We had to compete with Saucony, who proposed a new racing flat called the "Hitch a RIDE" based on the doctor's racing tactics, using its Neverrun foam. We also had to compete with Asics, who pitched the "Gel Shortcut," Mizuno, who pitched a new shoe called the "Wave Hello to the Photographers So They Think You Actually Ran the Full Distance," New Balance's "Fresh Fraud Foam," Adidas' "Boosted by a Car," and Altra's "Zero Drop and Also Zero Running" pitches.
In the end, Nike is proud to say that the Zoom Never won the doctor's endorsement.
No Next Yet wrote:
What's up with LA wrote:
It's been fun, but now the world knows he's a cheater. It's time to leave the sad old man alone. Move on to the next cheater.
Thank you Frank, for making burn through all my high speed data three days early this month refreshing this thread.
Unfortunately (???) there is no NEXT cheater, so we'll keep pounding Frankie into the ground.
I have quite a few other stories. But everything seems less compelling by comparison. There is a fun one I might post Friday/Monday. Boston bib copier featured prominently on the BAA’s website.