For those tracking intervals by heart rate, would that be average or max?
The max hr reached on the final rep, should be just below LT2.
yeah i think that’s probably the perfect way to describe it
its all in the execution of how you get to that last rep intensity wise.
If you’re looking at max per rep, say in a 10x3:00 workout, with an lt2 hr of 170, those first two reps MAX are going to be under 160 or youre going to be well over by the end
the more you do the workouts the easier you will be able to predict where you’re going to land at the end from the very first reps
As I have indicated before, I don't believe that "intensity discipline" is critical - simply going by perceived exertion is at least good enough (in fact, best).
With that said, consistency is king, so you do have to be honest with yourself on any given day to avoid overcooking things, and setting yourself backwards.
Being able to "back it up", both during repeated efforts in training (e.g., 2 x 20 min intervals) and day after day/week after week is an important indicator.
I agree perceived exertion is very useful, though I think it changes based on what your legs are “used to” (ie your typical paces, whether you’ve done faster running recently) and is challenging to get right at the start of a rep in the first minute or so. So some pace guidelines help keep me within the realm of where I want to be, and then effort/feeling can take over for the rest.
I’ve never cycled, so I’m not sure if the power/effort relationship is the same. Obviously the penalty for overdoing it is higher in running, so “being honest with yourself” as you say, is critical. Pace and HR can help.
Only really been doing this for about 5 weeks. Did a 5k today where the last 3k is a climb of about 300 feet. Missed my goal by 30 seconds but took 90 seconds off my time from same course last year. Running a flatter course in a couple of weeks that I think should give me a better sense of how this is working for me. I think I need to focus on some longer intervals because there was definitely a sense after 8-10 minutes that my legs wanted to rest even though cardio wise I was doing fine.
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
i think you missed the plot
and you also seem to be a little behind on your reading of their schedule
as for the rest of what you posted, not really sure wtf you’re on about
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
feel free to provide the evidence that the Ingeb do a AM T, PM T, go have beer, then do a hill session
we are all waiting for the new LT1/LT2/Vo2 in a single day paradigm
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
feel free to provide the evidence that the Ingeb do a AM T, PM T, go have beer, then do a hill session
we are all waiting for the new LT1/LT2/Vo2 in a single day paradigm
they say it’s big in Qatar
I meant the end of their double T weeks. This is something the NSA is missing.
It's pretty clear how you'd start to adjust this programme with more mileage (eg doubles). What about with significantly less mileage?
If you only had time for 3 runs a week could you do 3 threshold efforts and make SOME progress? At a certain mileage, taking 20 - 25% of total volume as a guide doesn't seem to be as important.
OR, would you stick to a runners-world esque programme of a longer steady run, a threshold and some faster stuff
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
Iirc in Jakob’s recent hill training video he says at the start that it’s the first time he’d done them in months.
It's pretty clear how you'd start to adjust this programme with more mileage (eg doubles). What about with significantly less mileage?
If you only had time for 3 runs a week could you do 3 threshold efforts and make SOME progress? At a certain mileage, taking 20 - 25% of total volume as a guide doesn't seem to be as important.
OR, would you stick to a runners-world esque programme of a longer steady run, a threshold and some faster stuff
Most questions about how to adjust NSA can be answered by asking yourself: "How can I maximize my cumulative training load given the constraints on my training time?"
So in your case, you would try to run as much as you can, as fast as you can, on the 3 days available, while still recovering in time for the next run. Can you do 3 sub-T sessions like that? Maybe, try it and see how it goes.
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
This thread has been focusing on the improvement of mainly amateur runners over time. One of the main protaganists has gone from around 18 mins to 15 mins flat for a 5K over a few years of training. Aged in his 40s. If he continues I guess that he will get down to the mid 14s using the same type of training but time will tell.
The problem a lot of people seem to be identifying in this thread is that the anaerobic or VO2 max workouts if not used correctly (and it does seem that they are very difficult to be used correctly by most athletes/coaches) are stunting the progress of many runners and preventing them from getting close to their potential over distances from 5k and upwards and this may even extend to distances as short as 1500m.
feel free to provide the evidence that the Ingeb do a AM T, PM T, go have beer, then do a hill session
we are all waiting for the new LT1/LT2/Vo2 in a single day paradigm
they say it’s big in Qatar
I meant the end of their double T weeks. This is something the NSA is missing.
really? i think you might be the first person to notice
this already been addressed ad nauseam, i think just in front of adapting the method to marathon training. again, if you think you can handle norwegian doubles 3x a week no one can stop you, but stagnation might be the least of your worries if you make that leap arbitrarily
How come everyone that uses this method runs a 15+ minute 5K? It's great that you're improving but there is a reason that the Ingebrigtsen's also use an anaerobic hill session at the end of their double T days. All of the LT work starts to limit your anaerobic ability if you don't sprinkle it in from time to time.
This thread has been focusing on the improvement of mainly amateur runners over time. One of the main protaganists has gone from around 18 mins to 15 mins flat for a 5K over a few years of training. Aged in his 40s. If he continues I guess that he will get down to the mid 14s using the same type of training but time will tell.
The problem a lot of people seem to be identifying in this thread is that the anaerobic or VO2 max workouts if not used correctly (and it does seem that they are very difficult to be used correctly by most athletes/coaches) are stunting the progress of many runners and preventing them from getting close to their potential over distances from 5k and upwards and this may even extend to distances as short as 1500m.
exactly, the premise of this thread has been most ppl that are seeking performance gains have a sustainability issue in their training, not a top end limitation
this is a management system as much as anything because whatever system ppl use to manage stress in their training (hr, rpe, lactate, phases of the moon) we are all human and this still imperceptibly slips away because of stress, breaks, optimism, life.
This setup is an attempt to simplify the natural tendency to overthink the elements of building endurance gains and give ppl a blueprint for a boring distillation of a sustainable stress/response model
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