Race wants prize money back

I'm going to post one of the comments for the RW article from an actual prize winner - Cody Olin Schmidt :

"I was the 2nd place finisher in the Men's 5k run, and consequently received both a $900 check and the call from Nichols nearly a month later. I would like to share my experience to provide a little more perspective on this story.

Two of my roommates and myself decided to sign up for the race after seeing how much money was advertised for the top 3 finishers in each race. We made the 8 hour drive the night before the race, and got ready to compete.

The event itself was great: the novelty of racing on the San Diego beach was a fun, unique experience, and the level of competition that showed up was impressive for a previously low-caliber race. Booths, music, and swarms of friendly runners set a great mood for the event.

After finishing the race, we were awarded our medals and jumped in the water to cool down. The main stage played reggae and guided those interested through some yoga. Some time after, there was an awards ceremony to highlight the top 3 male and female finishers of each race. Upon being called onto the stage, we were handed large novelty checks with our names, the race we completed, our place, and the advertised prize money for our respective place/race. The ceremony ended with photos and applause, and people slowly started to head out.

The top finishers were instructed to email Nichols with a completed W-9 form and proper identification in order to receive the prize money. I emailed my form, and recieved my check in early November.

Nearly a month later, I received a voicemail from Nicohls asking me to give him a call. I called him back later that night, and was met with an apologetic voice. Nichols said that he was sorry and embarrassed to make the call, and eventually filled me in on the problem:

BN • "You know that $900 check we sent you? Well, unfortunately we were only supposed to send you $450"

CS • "What do you mean? On your website it clearly states that 2nd place should receive $900-"

BN • "-Between the male and female finisher. If you look at the site it says we are giving out $15,000 in prizes, and if you do the math you can see that if we gave out the listed prizes to BOTH the male and female finishers, we would be $9500 over"

At this point, I felt a little cheated and got upset.

CS • "You can't expect people to add up the values, the wording suggests we would receive what you've sent us. Besides, you had us on your stage, taking pictures of us holding big novelty checks with the same amounted received"

BN • "Well Cody, we made a mistake, and people that can't forgive others for making mistakes live sad lives-"

CS • "- I can't just give you back $450 out of the blue- I cashed that check nearly a month ago and I live nearly paycheck to paycheck. That's a lot of money for me- I can't just give it back"

BN • "We aren't some corporate monsters expecting you to write us a check for $450 right now, we can do a payment plan and find something that works for you"

CS • "I don't know Bob- I totally understand your position and realize it was a mistake, but I want to think about this for a couple days and talk to a few people about it before sending you back the money-"

At this point Nichols reminded me of the work that his non-profit does, how much they help the community, and how the money will go to a greater cause. I stated again that I wanted to think about it longer before giving him an answer. This, however, provoked Nichols:

BN • "You know Cody, I've tried to be nice and I came to you humbly and apologetic, but you should know I can get pretty nasty too. A few times I've had to bring in our lawyer and settle things off the phone, but we don't want to have to go that route"

At this point, I was shocked at how threatening Nichols became. The conversation got heated as I defended my position and Nichols defended his. It eventually devolved into a pissing match where neither of our characters were anything close to admirable. This is where Nichols got his quote of me saying "the elite athletes are what make this event worthwhile", but he failed to mention that I said this in defense AFTER his: "You know Cody, you and the other athletes holding out just don't get it. You guys aren't worth anything to us - we don't make money from you guys! It's the women pushing the strollers and the kids in the sand that bring in the money- and that's what this is about, money".

I hung up the phone in anger, and took a few moments to think and decompress. I eventually decided to text Bob:

CS • "Bob, sorry things got heated. That's why I repeatedly asked for my own time to think things through. As I said, I will think it over and give you a response within 4 days. If I decide to return the money, what is the longest repayment schedule you can offer me?"

BN • "No worries Cody, I apologize for this mishap. I really appreciate you getting back to me, it says a lot about your character. What would work best for you. I understand your struggle to make ends meet and I appreciate your honesty. Your gonna do great in life."

I decided to speak with a few of the other athletes that received prize money to see if they got a similar call. I called Matt, and he too said he recently got off a heated phone call with Nicohls. Still a little outraged by Nichols behavior, we contacted other athletes to decide what to do.

Most of us decided to stop all communication with Nichols until we needed to make a move. We received a few other emails repeating the logistics of the mistake, the need to collect the extra money, and the constant reminder that the threat of court is always an option. After holding out for a few more weeks as the Letsrun thread (above) started to blow up, Nichols left me a message saying to keep the money and that he no longer wanted to deal with the issue.

I loved the meet, and would love to have the chance to compete again. I think Nichols made an honest mistake, but the way he handled everything was extremely unprofessional and unnecessarily stressful for both parties. "People make mistakes, and those that can't forgive will live sad lives". Hopefully, Bob, you can forgive me for keeping the advertised money and sharing my story. Hopefully in the future you won't pin the blame and reponsibility of your actions on those that participated your event."

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

rule#1 wrote:

rule#4- do the math

Rule #5 - As an RD - when you have got it wrong and come clean, manned up and done the right thing, don't undermine all that good work by trolling.

Indeed!

Rule#6- when in doubt, remember Bob's always the victim, so he's always justified in attacking people here and in Runners World article comments.

There are a couple of reasons anyone would put on a running event.

The most common reason is to raise money for charity.

Yes, you really don't need to offer any prize money to raise money. People will come to run and to give (but still reserve the right to be hesitant if the entry fee is too high).

And some people hold these events because they want to support the sport and like the idea of having elite athletes and fast times.

So they offer prize money and free entries to attract fast runners.

But the prize money comes from the bulk of the entrance fees from the other runners.

And sometimes to attract a lot of entrants you need to have a "cause" that the event supports.

So it's not the elites attracting attention for the cause, it's the cause bringing in money to cover the cost of the elites.

Elite runners are not needed for road (and beach) races.

But they are sometimes wanted by race directors who like the sport and wish to help the development of the athletes, which I think is a pretty good cause.

Even that one-sided account of the conversations makes the prize winners look bad. "...I want to think about this for a couple days and talk to a few people about it before sending you back the money..."Seriously, how long does it take to make the right decision.

Do the math wrote:

2014:

10K PRIZE MONEY: MALE & FEMALE

1ST PLACE – $1,400

2ND PLACE – $1,000

3RD PLACE – $700

4TH PLACE – $600

5TH PLACE – $400

2015:

10K Total Prize Money: Overall Make & Female

1ST PLACE – $1,800

2ND PLACE – $1,000

3RD PLACE – $700

2014: $8,200 prize money: $4,100 to each gender.

2015: $7,000 prize money: $3,500 to each gender.

I think it's reasonable to take time on a decision about money when you get a call out of the blue.

The RD's response struck me as a bit callous.

"You know Cody, I've tried to be nice and I came to you humbly and apologetic, but you should know I can get pretty nasty too. A few times I've had to bring in our lawyer and settle things off the phone, but we don't want to have to go that route"

He has a threatening manner that turns people off.

opus wrote:

Even that one-sided account of the conversations makes the prize winners look bad.

"...I want to think about this for a couple days and talk to a few people about it before sending you back the money..."

Seriously, how long does it take to make the right decision.

It's not like the guy just had $500 extra sitting around to send in. I think there's a lot of much wealthier people on this thread judging those who may not be in a position to easily cough up this kind of cash.

Seriously, "we can offer you a payment plan" ... what's the right decision for the RD to make there?

These elites have become entitled little snobs. Most of them haven't worked a day in their life. They expect to just travel, be pampered and win prize money. Even the name elite as a bad ring tone to it. No more prize money for these jokers.

Ahole elites wrote:

These elites have become entitled little snobs. Most of them haven't worked a day in their life. They expect to just travel, be pampered and win prize money. Even the name elite as a bad ring tone to it. No more prize money for these jokers.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?

Every elite runner I know works a full time job (teachers, engineers, fire fighter, physical therapist, doctor) and when they are done with their day job they lace up their shoes and go put in 100 mile weeks.

Then again this is probably just a troll post because nobody is this vapid.

"Even that one-sided account of the conversations makes the prize winners look bad.

"...I want to think about this for a couple days and talk to a few people about it before sending you back the money..."

Seriously, how long does it take to make the right decision."

He made the right decision instantaneously, he wanted a few days to see if he could afford to bail out the doofas RD.

And this line:

"You know Cody, I've tried to be nice and I came to you humbly and apologetic, but you should know I can get pretty nasty too. A few times I've had to bring in our lawyer and settle things off the phone, but we don't want to have to go that route"

I hope every runner who thinks about doing one of this guy's races, re-thinks it. Hate to see what real non-profits threaten people with.

Ol' Grimmy wrote:

Ahole elites wrote:

These elites have become entitled little snobs. Most of them haven't worked a day in their life...

...Every elite runner I know works a full time job (teachers, engineers, fire fighter, physical therapist, doctor) and when they are done with their day job they lace up their shoes and go put in 100 mile weeks...

Same here. I'd say the top competitor I know (multiple time Olympic Trials qualifier and a world champion) is a full-time parent to 2 young children, coaches at a local school, works at a family business, and owns/operates a physically demanding business outside the sport. Might have other stuff going on to, it's hard to keep track.

I would say the character traits that you need to be a good runner would be counter to the laziness that comes with "not working a day in your life".

To all of those who are reading this, I am a board member on the organization that runs this event and I want to explain what happened from our perspective. First we would like to thank Runner's World for posting this so people could see what really happened. Second we hold no ill feelings towards elite athletes, if we did we wouldn't have prize money for elite athletes every year. The article reflects what happened between a few of the athletes and the Race Director.

The Race Director made an honest mistake. We added a 10 mile event with prize money for the 2015 race and so had to scale down on the prize money for the 5K and 10K. This is why 2014's and 2015's prize money look the way they do.The Race Director advertised $15,000 in Total Prize Money. If you account for the $1,500 for the Masters Division, $2,000 for the Costume Contests, $2,000 for the largest teams and the 5K/10K/10 Mile prize money you'll see that it adds up to$15,000 not $24,500. The way the Race Director advertised the prize money for the 5K/10K/10Mile was confusing, but definitely not intentional. It was a mistake on the Race Directors part and one he is very upset by. He's not playing the victim or hero as some of you have said. He's just been stating what has happened and that's all.

Move forward....When (December) we were deciding on prize money for the 2016 race, Robert (RD) came to the conclusion that we had paid out $24,500 in prize money and that he screwed up. Phone calls were immediately made to the elites, of which 1/3 of them responded favorably by offering to pay the prize money back. 1/3 of the elites responded with "That's your problem" "Too bad and good luck" "Who cares, that's your problem" "‘I will take all your prize money and I’m going to laugh in your face, and I’m going to participate in your run next year and I’m going to win the prize money and I’m going to laugh in your face again,’” "We are the reason that your run is successful. It’s the elite athletes that make this event happen" and a couple of other comments that were disheartening. This is when Robert (RD) became upset and felt betrayed. The other 1/3 of the runners never responded. This is when we decided to get our lawyer involved. Again, Robert could have handled some of his wording better, but please remember that he only started using lawyer verbiage when he felt that no one was going to continue to respond or he was going to keep getting bashed by the elites who won the prize money. Do we think he handled this correctly, no. But it is what it is and he tried his best to rectify it by reaching out and apologizing to everyone.

Let continue on.....

After further conversation and reviewing the website, Robert decided that it was his error in the way he wrote the prize money structure. He immediately called up the elite athletes, apologized, offered them free entries to them and told them to keep their prize money. Yes, he could have dragged this into court, but he decided that it was his fault and it would be a waste of everyone's time and ultimately he was wrong in his wording.

He has since tried to contact all of the elites again and has had success with some and has been unsuccessful with others.

For those who don't understand why we give prize money out when we are a charity here is the answer. We attract a significant amount of people and participants who want to compete for the costume contest winnings and the largest team winnings. People we might not have attracted to attend this event. We had 700+ people sign up for the costume contest and largest team divisions. The return on this $4,000 prize money is well worth it, and the money that 700+ people can go towards more marine mammal rescue recovery cages, special needs youth projects, scholarships, beach wheel chairs, Mobility mats, recycling programs and much more. To see exactly where our race proceeds go visit

http://surfingmadonna.org/where-the-money-goes/

.

Now, the reason we give the elite athletes prize money is to create a competive event that is professionally timed and adds an element of excitement to the event. Is the elite prize money the best choice on where our prize money should go? We don't know. Maybe a few of you can comment on that. We would love to hear suggestions.

This year we decided to try something different. We decided to split the prize money up a bit more and offer the common runner/participant a chance to win prize money as this is more of a community event.

We've decided to give prize money to parent child teams, all of the age division 18-70+, more to the largest teams and $500 to both the male and female who can break previous course records in the 5K/10K. In all there is $16,000 in prize money. The response we've had from past participants and new participants has been encouraging. Yes, the elites won't receive as much prize money and for those who don't want to participate in our race because there isn't enough for them to win or they would have to travel to great of a distance to win that money, that is their choice. About .2% of our runners are elite athletes so we don't think it is fair to our participants that we give roughly 3/4 of our prize money to .2% of our participants.

In short, Runner's World contacted us before our October 25th, 2015 race and wanted to do a feature on our race, how different it is, where the money goes and the wild people that participate in it. Instead we got dragged into a controversial story that doesn't make anyone look good. It is what it is, we learned a valuable lesson and hope that we can all learn something from this.

On a more positive note, it's almost a blessing that this happened. We feel it gives us a good perspective on where to split up the prize money. More people know about our race, what we do for the local communities, how much we care for the common runner/walker/jogger and will start focusing on putting more of our event to cator to those who just want to show up and have fun. As of now, we have more people signed up then we had in December in the previous 3 races and look forward to a fun and successful October 15, 2016 race. To take a look at our event and provide feedback please visit

http://www.surfingmadonnarun.org

.

This year we may add more prize money to our elite category, but it will all hinge on how this is handled between the elites on the thread and the Race Director. Does this sound fair, or should we keep pointing fingers and accusing one another. P.S. I'm new to this so if I'm suppose to post in a different area please let me know. I hope I have not offended anyone with my post and am just trying to get our side of it our there on this page. Again, please be respectful. We've admitted fault, I'm not sure what else we can do, but if you have suggestions please let us know. One quick question, should I post from Robert's account or create my own?

Thank you,

Board Member

Well, this will go over well. Classy!

Ahole elites wrote:

These elites have become entitled little snobs. Most of them haven't worked a day in their life. They expect to just travel, be pampered and win prize money. Even the name elite as a bad ring tone to it. No more prize money for these jokers.

Ahole elites wrote:

Second we hold no ill feelings towards elite athletes, if we did we wouldn't have prize money for elite athletes every year. The article reflects what happened between a few of

Ummm What? I guess it was not a troll post.

Ahole elites wrote:We added a 10 mile event with prize money for the 2015 race and so had to scale down on the prize money for the 5K and 10K. This is why 2014's and 2015's prize money look the way they do.The Race Director advertised $15,000 in Total Prize Money. If you account for the $1,500 for the Masters Division, $2,000 for the Costume Contests, $2,000 for the largest teams and the 5K/10K/10 Mile prize money you'll see that it adds up to$15,000 not $24,500. The way the Race Director advertised the prize money for the 5K/10K/10Mile was confusing, but definitely not intentional.

The 2015 prize money was advertised exactly the same as 2014, with only minor changes in the amounts. The race director, on here and in comments in the RW article, claimed that they were entirely different, that runners should "do the math", that what he intended (when his amnesia broke a month after the race and he remembered what he had intended) should have been apparent to the runners, and that his big mistake was assuming that runners had sense.

He's not being honest with you or us. It's clear he simply failed to add up the prize money correctly. It was only after he realized that he paid out $24,500 rather than $15,000, that he came upon the idea that "oh ya, now I remember, I meant $1800 for male and female combined, ya, that's the ticket."

Couple of notes.....

First off your name is offensive. All good that you did with your post is undone by your name...

I think you did the right thing. I think you could eliminate elite money and still draw more participants.

At the end of the day as a race are you shooting to raise the most possible money for your organization or are you trying to be an elite race. 99.5% of runners do not care who won last year's race when they register.

Ol' Grimmy wrote:

Ahole elites wrote:

These elites have become entitled little snobs. Most of them haven't worked a day in their life. They expect to just travel, be pampered and win prize money. Even the name elite as a bad ring tone to it. No more prize money for these jokers.

Ahole elites wrote:

Second we hold no ill feelings towards elite athletes, if we did we wouldn't have prize money for elite athletes every year. The article reflects what happened between a few of

That's quite a turnaround in attitude in and hour and a half. Yet you're still calling elites "aholes".

I don't appreciate what is going on here. Someone is copying and pasting stuff and posing me. This has got to stop. It's obvious that someone just copied a post from or facebook post and put in on here. This is really screwed up and I'm not sure why someone would do this. If anyone wants to speak to me about this you can reach out to me personally. My email address is listed on our website.

Why would someone do this???

Sorry guys I am a total jogger but I will never again run this race. Shameful!!!