yea wrote:
As crazy as this sounds, its possible that our cell phones could have caused this problem. The radiation they emit is potentially damaging to nerves after long periods of exposure.
How many of you carry your cell phone in a pocket on the same side as the problem leg?
Holy crap, no way. I mean it is in the leg that I always carry my cell phone in, but I mean, come on. Could that really be it?
come on now, people will just think your crazy if you start thinking something like this could be the cause. quote]One and a half legs wrote:
yea wrote:
As crazy as this sounds, its possible that our cell phones could have caused this problem. The radiation they emit is potentially damaging to nerves after long periods of exposure.
How many of you carry your cell phone in a pocket on the same side as the problem leg?
Holy crap, no way. I mean it is in the leg that I always carry my cell phone in, but I mean, come on. Could that really be it?[/quote]
i used to be a heel striker and switched to a forefoot/toe striker. the change took some time but it is def worth it. the excericises i do are usually, step ups (alternate tapping your foot on a bench about 2-3 feet off the ground), lateral jumps over a line emphasizing knee drive over the line, forward and back jumps again emphasizing knee drive for quad strength, squat thrusts, another one where you alternate your front foot over the line (kind of like a cross country skiing excercise). i also do preacher squats (no weight) and leg curls with an abs ball. and then lastly i hit the hip rotating machines at the gym. that has seemed to clear it up for me...and this was something i dealt with for a long time in college and now im out and its fine
exbadger wrote:
So, I asked myself, why would a muscle just quit? I researched some reasons, but this area really is not well studied. For some reason, I got into the acid/base relationship in the body. I personally believed this was some pseudo science, but I like to make that decision after reading about it. Sounded a little hokey, but could make some sense. I also read about a study using a buffering agent that was successful in building bone in women over a six month period. (not calcium). It is potassium citrate. They hypothesized that it was creating a more basic blood chemistry, thus not breaking down bone as much.
Interesting you mention this. I work in a bone and nutrition lab, and one of the projects I'm working on right now is a potassium citrate study (one of Deborah Sellmeyer's study, UCSF). I had actually presented one of her paper's last year, before I even knew I would get to work on one of her projects. Potassium citrate is naturally found in fruits and vegetables (~citrate is converted to bicarbonate endogenously, buffers acid load). It is believed that there is an acid-base imbalance due to not eating enough fruits and vegetables, which causes bone to release it's elements to help buffer the acid load.
Anyways, I fractured a rib last year (bad cough). Knowing what I know as a bone person, I did several things different, but notably with my diet:
1. Ate more meat/beef (~IGF-1, growth factor, enhances musculoskeletal recovery)
2. Ate lots and lots of fruit and vegetables for the potassium citrate
I was completely pain free after 3 weeks! It was sort of miraculous actually, as I went from having a knot the size of a baseball (due to the bone callus and inflammation of the surrounding muscles), to having nothing at all, in just 3 weeks (normally takes 6-8 weeks).
So there definitely could be something with trying to alter the body's biochemistry through the diet. But rather than buying a supplement, just eat more fruits and vegetables. Something else to try.... I take an extra iron supplement (w/ orange juice) during the few weeks after a marathon. I've done this the last 2 marathons and it seems to help recovery/feeling normal again.
you are probably a midfoot- fore foot striker.
I have had the same problem since 2001, but I manage it pretty well I think. I dont get as many good races in a year as I used to but I do get some.
What ever you do, stay of the track, you have a really bad strength inbalance in your legs, at the hips and you are probably out of alignment...is it in your left leg? Flat roads or gravel works best. Dont run on any roads with a pitch.
You probably have some piraformis problems, and some siatic nerve issues, because a pissed off piraformis will put pressure on your siatic nerve making it difficult to control your legs normal running motion.
see a chiropractor, get stronger on both sides, and get orthotics.
good luck.
P.S I made it through college pretty succesfully by running the steeplechase. A friend of mine had the same problem and ran the mile. I have run some half marathons since college that have gone well.
(READ)
I started to loose control 3 weeks after a cortizone shot.It sounds like it is always the left leg.Can this be due to where all your major organs are located in the body?
Seeing this thread pop up many times over the last couple of years really has suprised me. I can't believe how many runners are cursed with this craziness. I posted about my problem on page 1 back in November of 2006. Since then I've done all of my training in as minimal of shoes as possible.
I havn't had the problem arise during actual land running in quite some time and it hasn't occurred during a road race in over a year and a half, knock on wood. For me, my problem has been my left leg losing coordination. My left leg is (or was) slightly higher than my right. I could immediately tell my left gluteus medius was much weaker and contributing to the problem. I have been doing the hip hike exercise for over a year and I think that, along with the minimalist running, has greatly improved my gait.
I also seem to have a really tight right piforimis and psoas when compared to my left. When I place my right ankle on my left knee and focus on bringing my left shoulder to my right knee, I can really feel the tightness. I can sink into this stretch much further when I place my left leg on my right knee, etc.
Also when I do the kneeling hip flexor stretch, as seen here:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipFlexors/KneelingHipFlexor.html
I can really feel how much tighter my right side is.
As others have posted over the last 2 years, you not only have to stregthen the weak side, (with exercises like the hip hike, and hip abductor machines), but you also have to increase the flexibility of the side that is tilted lower.
Like I said before, I havn't had any problems on run on any natural surface in a while. However, the true test comes when I run on the treadmill. I will get the sensation after about 30 minutes on the flat incline. Half the time now, when on the treadmill, I can almost run through it by varrying the speeds and mixing up my cadence. I can usually stop for a short time and resume for at least another 30 minutes without incident. This whole treadmill phenomena completely perplexes me, but I guess I should be happy that I am almost nearly "cured" since I first posted on this thread in November of 2006.
Good luck to all and keep stretching and stregthening.
would you mind listing your PR'S? I find it to be important with this is issue, because lets say your current marathon pace is 6:00 minutes. Maybe if you are running 5:30 pace the problem would arise again. I have found this thread to be extremely helpful and like you I find the problem to be much worse on the treadmill and what you have provided did help. I think if there are faster runners figuring it out it provides much more hope.
spokompton wrote:
Seeing this thread pop up many times over the last couple of years really has suprised me. I can't believe how many runners are cursed with this craziness. I posted about my problem on page 1 back in November of 2006. Since then I've done all of my training in as minimal of shoes as possible.
I havn't had the problem arise during actual land running in quite some time and it hasn't occurred during a road race in over a year and a half, knock on wood. For me, my problem has been my left leg losing coordination. My left leg is (or was) slightly higher than my right. I could immediately tell my left gluteus medius was much weaker and contributing to the problem. I have been doing the hip hike exercise for over a year and I think that, along with the minimalist running, has greatly improved my gait.
I also seem to have a really tight right piforimis and psoas when compared to my left. When I place my right ankle on my left knee and focus on bringing my left shoulder to my right knee, I can really feel the tightness. I can sink into this stretch much further when I place my left leg on my right knee, etc.
Also when I do the kneeling hip flexor stretch, as seen here:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipFlexors/KneelingHipFlexor.htmlI can really feel how much tighter my right side is.
As others have posted over the last 2 years, you not only have to stregthen the weak side, (with exercises like the hip hike, and hip abductor machines), but you also have to increase the flexibility of the side that is tilted lower.
Like I said before, I havn't had any problems on run on any natural surface in a while. However, the true test comes when I run on the treadmill. I will get the sensation after about 30 minutes on the flat incline. Half the time now, when on the treadmill, I can almost run through it by varrying the speeds and mixing up my cadence. I can usually stop for a short time and resume for at least another 30 minutes without incident. This whole treadmill phenomena completely perplexes me, but I guess I should be happy that I am almost nearly "cured" since I first posted on this thread in November of 2006.
Good luck to all and keep stretching and stregthening.
I have actually achieved most of my longer distance PRs during this transition to minimalism and through this loss of coordination bs.
Here are a few that I set during this time:
5 mile road: mid 26
10 mile road: mid 56
half marathon: low 1:14
This is nuts. I really thought I was alone with this issue. Then I heard about McDougal, and then was led to this thread.
In cross country, i ran a 25:25 at Van Cortlandt, but my 5k pr was seriously around 16:20 on the track. After this horrible 5k my sophomore year, I was turned into a miler even though I was probably more of a distance guy. I was able to run no faster than 3:56.
What irks me is that in a 7 mile tempo run for example on flat New Jersey towpath, I would kill myself to run 5:40 pace. Two to three miles in every tempo, my right quad would not cooperate and it would almost feel like my knew was going to buckle. One practice later in the year, we did a 7 mile tempo on a grass xc course which rolled a little bit. I had no issues. I'd complain about this to everyone and they'd look at me like I was crazy, so I began to think that maybe this was a normal issue for runners.
I just wish there was a cure, even though my college career is over!!!
Problem!!I loose coordination on my left as did you.My right hip side is higher.My left Psoas seems tighter.When i look at the sitting stretch as you discribe my left leg is way tighter.
i have had the problem of being able to run on grass or dirt with no issues but once i step on the road or track it always started to get bad. i dont really race on the track much anymore as i do mostly road races...even tho ill run some unattached track meets. does anyone know why a softer surface makes it not bothersome?
experimenter wrote:
i have had the problem of being able to run on grass or dirt with no issues but once i step on the road or track it always started to get bad. i dont really race on the track much anymore as i do mostly road races...even tho ill run some unattached track meets. does anyone know why a softer surface makes it not bothersome?
I don't think that it's the softer surface so much as it's the uneven surface that helps. As someone else mentioned above, the treadmill tends to set this problem off very quickly, and the treadmill is the epitomy of flat, soft surfaces. Conversely, gravel is always shifting and altering the pressure on your feet, and divets and irregularities in grass surfaces have a similar effect. I've actually found some relief from this problem by switching from a midfoot strike to a heel strike, which contradicts an earlier poster, so I guess there's really no master solution for relieving the symptoms of this problem...
My only guess for a cause is the fact that my left leg is slightly longer than my right. I can tell this by the wear in my shoes. So I wonder if the right leg compensates, or has to work harder as a run goes on, until it ultimately fails. Terrain would help as no leg would have a clear advantage. I don't know if this even makes sense, but I felt like this was always the cause.
Just a few thoughts on the past couple pages of posts:
***Regarding how surfaces affect the loss of coordination... I saw a manual therapist that explained to me that my left problematic leg is hitting the ground very hard in the heel and causing my femur to jam into my hip harder than it should/does on the right. This further aggravates the sciatic due to the additional pressure from the piriformis trying to control the extra jamming my hip is getting from each left foot plant. Why is my left heel hitting the ground so hard? Well, my sciatic is damaged to begin with and the nerve signal gets weaker the farther down the leg you go, especially comprising the muscles necessary for dorsal flexion down in the foot. Rather than being able to control a strong, smooth foot plant and toe off, I'm unable to control those muscles and thus hit the ground harder than on the right. SOOOO, the harder the surface, the harder my heel hits cause there's less "give" to the surface I'm running on. Grass has more give than a track; dirt trail had more give than the road. Anyway, just what this guy thought about it...
*My left leg is the problematic leg and it is the SHORTER leg. My problem leg is not the longer leg, as it is for some of you. Had a CT scan and my "good" right leg is the longer leg by 5/16". So, I use an insert on the left.
*My PRs are quite old now as I haven't been able to race properly since 2001. Certainly not bragging as I realize there are thousands of people in every country around the globe better than me, but my best 10,000m was ranked 25th among American women in 2001 by T&FN. I was all hopeful to get to work and get even faster after college and move on to the marathon, but, started getting my loss of coordination in Sept. 2001 and couldn't get back on the track, let alone move up in distance to the roads. I have yet to competitively race anything other than cross country since college when my leg was good. Which, *sigh* is becoming longer and longer ago...
***Hmm... cell phone in the pocket? That's similar to all the articles on men getting sciatica in the same leg that they keep their wallet in and sit at a desk all day at work or driving. Probably more from pressure of the item under your butt cheek rather than any sort of cancerous/radioactive signal being emitted... But, haven't really done any research on this to back up my initial opinion.
***Potassium citrate. Definitely gonna try it and will report. My dad died of kidney problems (specifically, glomerular nephritis) at a young 42. I remember him always eating bananas and drinking gatorade cause the docs told him he was potassium deficient. I always crave salt (ie: in the summer I add 1/4teaspoon to my 32ounce gatorade!!!) and wondered if my body was looking for a replacement for potassium it wasn't getting??? So, not being a hypochondriac, but just curious about any possible connection, googled some stuff on "kidneys potassium salt loss of coordination" a few years back. Didn't figure anything out, so am really glad to get your idea and explanation. Even if I personally think a needle nicked my sciatic and caused my problem, I'm willing to consider the problem actually could just be the pH of my blood being off and try a new vitamin to correct the problem...
We've gotta hang in there--- we WILL figure this out!!!
Miss Osage County-
Did you ever test out your leg on a stationary bike? I've found that my symptoms are much worse on a bike. I usually cannot last more than 20 minutes without my right leg (the one with past sciatic problems) going haywire on me.
legally blonde wrote:
it has to be a spine problem, not a leg muscle issue.
Like a nerve impingement? Or muscles in my spine? Poor posture? My back does spasm frequently enough that I know there is something wrong in there, but I just can't seem to figure out what it is.
mlbfan24 wrote:
legally blonde wrote:it has to be a spine problem, not a leg muscle issue.
Like a nerve impingement? Or muscles in my spine? Poor posture? My back does spasm frequently enough that I know there is something wrong in there, but I just can't seem to figure out what it is.
most likely right at the vertebrae, vertebrae can twist one direction slightly creating nerve impingement to the leg or arms. My L5 was twisted for years when I had this leg dysfunction.
Weak right glute max. When your glute max becomes very weak your back muscles must do most of the work. You need to see a postural restoration specialist. It is not a question of just the glute max. You are probable sitting so far back on the right your left became short and weak. Work the glute med on the left and the glute max on the right. Look at me. I have the same problem. For months all we did was work on the right glute max .Never got anywhere. You must allow your body the ability to shift to the left as well as not falling so far to the right. I can see my posture get better everyday. Why did your right glute get weak in the 1st place? Your glute med on the left got weaker and weaker .Then you depended on your Quad and TFL to do the work. Overwork these muscles will defiantly cause postural imbalance. This will cause leg length. You will always stay on your right side if you don’t fix the left. You can’t just strengthen the right because your body will not let you go left. This explains the bike theory. You will always be on your right leg when your left gets tighter. When pedaling try to use your left leg more. Really try to use your glutes. You will notice your left leg will not be able to keep up. This is what I think is Josh’s problem. Running on the track will really shut down your left glute med and overwork the quad and tfl.If your right glute max shuts down you might find your psoas, glute med/periformis get over worked. This is a prime case for sciatica and back problems. Sorry for the spelling. I am on my lunch.
What can be done for a rotation in the spine? I've done the chiropractor route and that did not get me anywhere?
As for AB's post, a lot of that makes sense. I'm not so sure I have a weak right glute max since it feels much stronger than my left side, but I definitely have a weaker left glute med. It feels much smaller than my right side. Also my left TFL and rectus femoris appear a bit larger in my left leg as opposed to my right. I feel like my left psoas is long and weak, so I have been working on strengthening it for the past week or so. The only way I can get it to work without using my rectus femoris is to hike my hip up into my torso before lifting my leg.
I definitely lean and sit more on my right side. In fact, in pretty much any strength exercise I perform, my right side takes over, be it squats, deadlifts, back extensions, ab work, etc. My entire right side is short and/or tight from my hip up through my back, shoulder and neck. My right arm's range of motion is much worse than my left.
I will continue to work on strengthening my left glute med and left psoas but I'm not really sure what to do for anything else since my right side continues to take over on any core strength exercise I perform.