Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

But is it "too hard" if it falls within the recommended pace ranges? I'm not suggesting just going out and hammering reps at random paces.

Essentially, just to add to the conversation, would people generally find the upper limit to be the pace ranges or could a higher HR essentially be a limit, even if the paces are adhered to?

I have 35% recovery 13% aerobic endurance 25% aerobic power 25% threshold.

And my training load has flatlined. The algorithm it uses gets v excited by vo2 session (it loved the one time I did the 400x20) but hates the slower stuff. I use intervals icu to give me some comfort.

when in doubt, slow down

Yes, the recommended paces can be too hard. There’s been a few people who have reported the initial suggested paces being too fast.

My way to measure this is to start off at the slower end and work my way up. Also, take notes of how you felt for the workout, the easy day the next day, and then the following workout. If there’s still fatigue, you might be going too fast.

What I enjoy about this system is the consistency of it all. The day after a workout, I’m always glad to have an easy day. Then the day after an easy day, I’m always itching to run fast. On other programs, I felt too wiped on some easy days, or wishing I had another workout instead of waiting 2 days between. With this, I always look forward to the next day.

So I should ignore heart rate and train more to paces? What about humidity and rolling hills?

Given that the sessions are supposed to be sub-threshold, if you are over 90% of max hr, it is most likely you have gone above threshold.

My last few intervals usually max out around 2-3 bpm below 90% max.

Some people do have very high LTs, i.e. 92% of hr max, but unless you have had this confirmed by lab test, lactate meter etc, probably worth staying a bit lower.

I'm only three weeks in but this is also what I've found--I would be way above LT if I stuck to the paces set out on page 1. I'm doing lactate tests during most workouts and I've found that I need to be a good 15 seconds/mile slower than those paces to stay in the right lactate range. Generally, by the last minute of a rep, that range corresponds to a few bpm under the HR that coincided with my LT2 in a recent lab test.

What's everyone's experience with getting back into this training after longer races? I did a trail race which took me 1:50 or so last weekend, and the DOMS hit me day after, still had it up until today and have done easy running so far but going to do a 3 x 10min session today.

Do you find you need 4 or so days of recovery or are you right back into it? I'm wary of injury so have taken it cautiously to not do anything hard until DOMS gone - as have done this in the past and got injured.

Wow thank you for this. I've been cycling a lot more and have been trying to find this original information from cyclists, this helps a ton!

My experience of living in two places (one incredibly hot, the other very humid) has been that in those conditions my paces are much slower. Similar to yours, I also have similar 5k times

Quesiton -

Instead of doing the long repeats at the lower end of sub threshold why not do a continuous run at the lowest end of sub threshold? For example instead of doing 3x12 minutes at 6:24-6:41 I could realistically do 60 minutes continuous at 6:40.

Honestly, if you are asking this, then for sure this training is not for you.

This is why a book from sirpoc would hit the mark. It would clear so much up if he charted the journey from start to finish.

We are beyond the point where you can simply tell someone to read the thread. Far too big.

I don't know, man. I jumped onto the bandwagon a few weeks ago (when the thread was already extremely large. Skimming the thread, plus some googling got me up to speed no problem. I found the usual sites (lactrace, that google-pages summary, etc.) all on my own.

I really have no patience for people asking to be spoonfed, to be honest.

Can you incorporate subthreshold intervals in the long run (e.g. extended WU, 3x10mins, CD)? I’ve read that this is generally discouraged for the vanilla version of the method.

I'm glad you have the free time to read 250+ pages. Not everybody has that luxury.

Sure you can. Same with the long continuous tempo. But why would you want to deviate from the template that’s gotten sirpoc and so many others actual results? It’s your training, you can do whatever you want.

So what's the answer then? Why not continuous close to MP?