Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

Precious Roy wrote:

Ernest wrote:

Half-right.

Russia is using the spectre of misuse of Western Arms to potentially slow or stop their supply. But diversion to the black market is certain reality, not convenient hypothesis.

Pilfering of arms and their illicit trade has been prevalent in the Ukraine for 30+ years, particularly the last 8. If you perform even modest research on the topic, this is irrefutable.

A few links and quotes confirming this were provided earlier in the thread.

Prior to the Maidan revolution and when the prime minister was a Russian puppet (at best), the UA was in shambles. Weapons smuggling existed with impunity in large part because Yanukovich was serving Russia by weakening the UA to the point where it could barely function. This is how Russia was able to roll right through Crimea with no resistance. Since then, the UA has been rebuilt into a substantial fighting force with a professional chain of command. There is no better evidence of that than the fact that Russia has been at war with Ukraine for almost five months and only has been able to capture roughly the equivalent of Akron, Canton, and Youngstown, Ohio while suffering massive losses of personnel and equipment. Ukrainians have been begging the west for arms since the beginning of this conflict and have been fighting valiantly, sustaining heavy losses. The idea that there would be systemic weapons smuggling during this conflict is just another slur on the Ukraine people that has no basis in fact and is nothing more than speculation (more correctly, Russian disinformation).

Ernest wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

Prior to the Maidan revolution and when the prime minister was a Russian puppet (at best), the UA was in shambles. Weapons smuggling existed with impunity in large part because Yanukovich was serving Russia by weakening the UA to the point where it could barely function. This is how Russia was able to roll right through Crimea with no resistance. Since then, the UA has been rebuilt into a substantial fighting force with a professional chain of command. There is no better evidence of that than the fact that Russia has been at war with Ukraine for almost five months and only has been able to capture roughly the equivalent of Akron, Canton, and Youngstown, Ohio while suffering massive losses of personnel and equipment. Ukrainians have been begging the west for arms since the beginning of this conflict and have been fighting valiantly, sustaining heavy losses. The idea that there would be systemic weapons smuggling during this conflict is just another slur on the Ukraine people that has no basis in fact and is nothing more than speculation (more correctly, Russian disinformation).

Russia's or the Ukraine's performance in battle has no real bearing on whether arms are and/or will be stolen and sold in the Ukraine.

Nothing is offered to prove arms misappropriation and black market arms sales are not and cannot take place in the Ukraine.

Additionally, the post states any suggestion of arms diversion:

1. Is a slur on the Ukraine people.

2. Has no basis in fact.

3. Is nothing more than speculation.

4. Is Russian disinformation.

Except it is Interpol, US Intelligence agencies, and now the Ukraine government itself demanding tracking controls to prevent and stem what you state isn't and can't happen.

And there is a plethora of reputable articles and evidence clearly establishing arms theft and illicit sales have been and are taking place, and that this worsened after Maidan protests.

Sample links and quotes from the BBC and GunPolicy.org were provided affirming such.

These institutions were not making baseless speculation, peddling Russian disinformation, or making slurs.

Facts are not slurs. But labelling facts as slurs is a tactic to suppress facts.

RussianTerroristState wrote:

Ernest wrote:

Russia's or the Ukraine's performance in battle has no real bearing on whether arms are and/or will be stolen and sold in the Ukraine.

Nothing is offered to prove arms misappropriation and black market arms sales are not and cannot take place in the Ukraine.

Additionally, the post states any suggestion of arms diversion:

1. Is a slur on the Ukraine people.

2. Has no basis in fact.

3. Is nothing more than speculation.

4. Is Russian disinformation.

Except it is Interpol, US Intelligence agencies, and now the Ukraine government itself demanding tracking controls to prevent and stem what you state isn't and can't happen.

And there is a plethora of reputable articles and evidence clearly establishing arms theft and illicit sales have been and are taking place, and that this worsened after Maidan protests.

Sample links and quotes from the BBC and GunPolicy.org were provided affirming such.

These institutions were not making baseless speculation, peddling Russian disinformation, or making slurs.

Facts are not slurs. But labelling facts as slurs is a tactic to suppress facts.

If 99% of the arms sent to Ukraine end up on the black market and 1% end up killing Russian invaders, then we’ll just need to send 100 times as many arms. Remember, the war ends when enough Russians soldiers are killed or wounded that Putin can’t field an army. The sooner that happens the better.

Armchair Patriot wrote:

RussianTerroristState wrote:

If 99% of the arms sent to Ukraine end up on the black market and 1% end up killing Russian invaders, then we’ll just need to send 100 times as many arms. Remember, the war ends when enough Russians soldiers are killed or wounded that Putin can’t field an army. The sooner that happens the better.

US pays full price for weapons from MIC -> Sends to Poland -> just across the border are loaded into any Tom, Dick, or Harry's vehicle for transport to the "front line -> instead, are sold at deep discount on the black market -> where Russia buys -> Russia uses to kill more Ukrainians and foreign mercs.

Net result: US/NATO are supplying arms to Russia at a discount.

A very clever military strategy. By supplying all the weapons the Russian military needs the Russian weapons manufacturers will eventually go out of business. Then, watch out! Checkmate!