Sandra Vi going for record across America

But you are citing her data from the Transcon. My question pertained to what evidence foretold her ability to do the consistency, day-after-day, followed by week-after-week. Zwitty/others(?) are making the case that prior running resume's of other athletes do not foretell success on a Transcon record attempt; yet Zwitty/others were exuding confidence from the outset of Sandi's attempt...while previous athletes (like Markus) that had actually ran in an attempt were not seeing it.

Markus wrote:

You need a certain mindset for runs like a trans con. Obviously Sandy has it and Mimi did not. You have to stay within your personal abilities at all times. Once you've gone to hard and get injured it gets very difficult if not impossible to do the daily mileage.

But mindset is only a part. The physicality, the 'jogging'/running' form chosen is a factor. Mimi's method (at least initially) was a

run/walk. Sandi's seems to be a steady, steady drone-on. (Correct me if I'm mistaken.) It seems Sandi's drone-on would be more energy-systems conservative, but more likely prone to tendonitis/tendonosis (over-use injuries).

Markus wrote:

You need a certain mindset for runs like a trans con. Obviously Sandy has it and Mimi did not. You have to stay within your personal abilities at all times.

Exactly. You know better than most the difference between a 1000 mile run around a short loop and a transcon that deals with weather and more.

I am interested in seeing how Pam Reed does in February. Pam is taking the shorter LA-NYC course. Sandy covered 2800 miles in 49 days and ~11 hours. The best way to compare Sandy and Pam will be to look at Pam's time at 2800 miles, if she can get there.

this is amazing, no? wrote:

Sandi's seems to be a steady, steady drone-on. (Correct me if I'm mistaken.) It seems Sandi's drone-on would be more energy-systems conservative, but more likely prone to tendonitis/tendonosis (over-use injuries).

Steady pace and holding it for hours was what people noticed about Sandy. She could out last better and faster runners regardless of the conditions. That seems to be a key to her success, and maybe is a key to anyone going after any transcon record.

Markus wrote:

You need a certain mindset for runs like a trans con. Obviously Sandy has it and Mimi did not. You have to stay within your personal abilities at all times. Once you've gone to hard and get injured it gets very difficult if not impossible to do the daily mileage.

And with regard to Mimi specifically, she came in at the outset as'damaged goods' (the knee), in conjunction to her 'advanced age', so those factors were probably much more significant than her lack of staying within her personal abilities (if you are referring to oneself not exceeding their energy/physicality-systems, as in normal races. Also, even if Mimi had been younger, without a bum knee, she has blogged in the past of having trouble taking i n sufficient calories on extended efforts.

this is amazing,no? wrote:

Also, even if Mimi had been younger, without a bum knee, she has blogged in the past of having trouble taking i n sufficient calories on extended efforts.

That is likely another key. The ability to eat and maintain weight. Mimi was rather thin at the start and could not maintain weight--muscle starts being lost. Pam Reed is also thin like Mimi. Weight maintenance will be one of her challenges next February.

this is amazing, no? wrote:

But mindset is only a part. The physicality, the 'jogging'/running' form chosen is a factor. Mimi's method (at least initially) was a

run/walk. Sandi's seems to be a steady, steady drone-on. (Correct me if I'm mistaken.) It seems Sandi's drone-on would be more energy-systems conservative, but more likely prone to tendonitis/tendonosis (over-use injuries).

And it is not just the steady drone-on holding of the same gait (form). The form itself (cranking for the 12-14 minute miles) must be important. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Sandi's form is a mid-strike, with significant buttock engagement? Lydiard (who was training for speed) would say she is 'sitting in the bucket', and needs to get up more forefoot, with chest out. Sandy's form (sitting in the bucket) is maybe more comfortable for hours on end. But still, I wonder about tendonosis/tendonitis (from repetitive use) would eventually set it.

This is amazing, no?

Edit: "...The form itself (cranking for the 12-14 minute *pace miles) ..."

this is amazing, no? wrote:

Sandy's form (sitting in the bucket) is maybe more comfortable for hours on end.

Sandi's form is contrary to what 'real' runners' i.e., those competitive in 'real' races (30k down) try to achieve. 'Real' runners will strip any unecessary muscle/fat mass that does not contribute to 'correct' running form. Maybe Sandi coming into the sport as a non-runner, going long from the beginning (cannot find much 'real' short race info at athlinks on her) was one key to her success. Pete K. also seems to have a running background where he went straight to the Ultra's from the outset, no?

Zwitty wrote:

On one hand, Sandy has never even qualified for Boston. On the other, can you really imagine Shalene Flanagan or Kara Goucher finishing a transcon without breaking multiple bones, let alone averaging 56+ miles a day? They are COMPLETELY different endeavors, and not at all comparable.

It would be very interesting, if after a few years of pounding the weights, Ryan Hall got the bug to go after the Transcon record. We can dream.

this is amazing, no? wrote:

But by the same token, how was zwitty, or Sandi for that matter, so confident at the beginning of Sandi's run, that she was going to do this. There was nothing in her running resume, as well, that could have predicted her outcome on the Transcon. Probably most observers of the thread agreed with Markus' early view on Sandi's Transcon attempt. On top of needing to be capable and ready, there was the drama associated with her team prior to starting (with the change-out of the previous coordinator).

I was confident in Sandy from the beginning because I've been coaching her for 2 years, I've coached hundreds of ultrarunners in the last 3+ years, and she has the perfect combination of a great demeanor (self-confident yet humble, doesn't get too high or low, and is just really, really steady) with a fierce training drive, as well as the ability to run high weekly mileage and keep coming back for more, never getting any serious injuries.

And I wouldn't say there was "nothing" in her running resume that would have predicted success during her transcon. She is coming off the women's win at Badwater, on one of the most-challenging weather years in the race's history. I ran the last 50 miles with her, and she BLEW through the field, including past some world-class women, like Szilvia Lubics of Hungary, the Spartathlon course record-holder until a few years ago. I told all you guys at the beginning of this thing that I was sure Sandy would surprise all of the naysayers. I was confident to say that because I know HER as a person and as a runner...

So far today 2 wrote:

That is likely another key. The ability to eat and maintain weight. Mimi was rather thin at the start and could not maintain weight--muscle starts being lost. Pam Reed is also thin like Mimi. Weight maintenance will be one of her challenges next February.

There is basically, no doping control, right? IV's, stimulants (steroids, HGH, etc.) are possibilities in the endeavor, eh?

How about Sandi? Does she drink caffeine? What and how much pain killers (for tendonitis, etc.) are used? I'm not trying to belittle her accomplishment, just raising topics that might be a part of any Transcon.

Maybe Sandi could do an AMA on Reddit after it is over. She plans to write a book, no? Cinder and Jay should be highlighted in it, yes? Sandi's 'lean but accomplished and capable' crew is a remarkable highlight, compared to Mimi's extravagant crew bonanza.

Okay, I didn't know you had that experience coaching many ultra-runners.

But again, you yourself admit that results from these 'shorter' races, in themselves, do not determine success for a long Transcon.

Yes, you did. Your experience coaching other ultra-runners played a big part in your correct assessment.

Question: Even at those 'shorter' races, like Badwater where Sandi BLEW through the field....was she still using the same gait/cadence/form, cranking 12-14 min pace miles?

this is amazing, no? wrote:

There is basically, no doping control, right? IV's, stimulants (steroids, HGH, etc.) are possibilities in the endeavor, eh?

More likely for skinny runner like Mimi. Lack of sleep. Not enough food.

this is amazing, no? wrote:

[quote]

It would be very interesting, if after a few years of pounding the weights, Ryan Hall got the bug to go after the Transcon record. We can dream.

Ryan Hall is done. He will probably never do an ultra not to speak of an Trans Con.

So far today 2 wrote:

I claimed nothing about finishing on the "steps".

No. I was referring to the poster identifying as Alec Guinness. Although the fact everyone keeps talking about it legitimizes this absurd concern.

AquaDyne wrote:

So far today 2 wrote:

I claimed nothing about finishing on the "steps".

No. I was referring to the poster identifying as Alec Guinness. Although the fact everyone keeps talking about it legitimizes this absurd concern.

Okay, I misread your comment. My apologies.

What do you think about the next two days for Sandy's mileage option? I though Sandy might run a bit more today but she stayed on her 14-hour schedule today.

So far today 2 wrote:

What do you think about the next two days for Sandy's mileage option? I though Sandy might run a bit more today but she stayed on her 14-hour schedule today.

I think she'll run a somewhat normal day tomorrow, possibly resting early. Then get up extra early on Saturday and try to finish up as late as they can get a "steps event" permit at City Hall. I suspect the timing of the permit may impact when they start.

She'll get an extra hour overnight if she finishes on Sunday...

AquaDyne wrote:

So far today 2 wrote:

What do you think about the next two days for Sandy's mileage option? I though Sandy might run a bit more today but she stayed on her 14-hour schedule today.

I think she'll run a somewhat normal day tomorrow, possibly resting early. Then get up extra early on Saturday and try to finish up as late as they can get a "steps event" permit at City Hall. I suspect the timing of the permit may impact when they start.

She'll get an extra hour overnight if she finishes on Sunday...

Given Sandy has 135 miles to go -- i.e., the "Badwater distance" -- she decided it would be a nice way to cap off her transcon to have a long night of sleep last night and run the final 135 in basically one big push, which started at 8am this morning. She has a large crew with her now (6-7 people), and she's in great spirits.

It's hard to believe this unbelievable endeavor is quickly coming to a close. What an amazing ride it has been!